Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

Reports of actual crimes and investigations, not hypothetical situations.

Moderators: carlson1, Keith B

User avatar

Topic author
Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 18491
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#1

Post by Keith B »

IRVING, Texas - A man who shot and killed two robbery suspects in Irving is now charged for their murders.

Irving police said the murders happened Tuesday afternoon outside an apartment complex on Clubhouse Place. Three teenagers allegedly went to 31-year-old Jarrell Ivory Chaney’s apartment with the intention of robbing him.

Police said during the robbery Chaney disarmed one of the teens and all three started running away. He fired shots at them and hit two – 18-year-old Ishmeal Smithson and 19-year-old Theophilos Greer.
I am guessing the teens went there under the pretense of buying drugs, but were there to rob him. If the man was involved in illegal activities during the robbery, then he does not get to use self defense as a justification.

More here: http://www.fox4news.com/news/irving-man ... y-suspects#/
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
User avatar

Allons
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 2217
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:03 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#2

Post by Allons »

Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
NRA Member
US Army 1988-1999
User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5052
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#3

Post by ScottDLS »

Keith B wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:21 pm
IRVING, Texas - A man who shot and killed two robbery suspects in Irving is now charged for their murders.

Irving police said the murders happened Tuesday afternoon outside an apartment complex on Clubhouse Place. Three teenagers allegedly went to 31-year-old Jarrell Ivory Chaney’s apartment with the intention of robbing him.

Police said during the robbery Chaney disarmed one of the teens and all three started running away. He fired shots at them and hit two – 18-year-old Ishmeal Smithson and 19-year-old Theophilos Greer.
I am guessing the teens went there under the pretense of buying drugs, but were there to rob him. If the man was involved in illegal activities during the robbery, then he does not get to use self defense as a justification.

More here: http://www.fox4news.com/news/irving-man ... y-suspects#/
Loses the legal presumption that deadly force is justified under 9.31/9.32, not loses the defense justification completely. Facts to be determined at trial if any. :rules:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
User avatar

03Lightningrocks
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 11451
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Plano

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#4

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

ScottDLS wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:02 pm
Keith B wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:21 pm
IRVING, Texas - A man who shot and killed two robbery suspects in Irving is now charged for their murders.

Irving police said the murders happened Tuesday afternoon outside an apartment complex on Clubhouse Place. Three teenagers allegedly went to 31-year-old Jarrell Ivory Chaney’s apartment with the intention of robbing him.

Police said during the robbery Chaney disarmed one of the teens and all three started running away. He fired shots at them and hit two – 18-year-old Ishmeal Smithson and 19-year-old Theophilos Greer.
I am guessing the teens went there under the pretense of buying drugs, but were there to rob him. If the man was involved in illegal activities during the robbery, then he does not get to use self defense as a justification.

More here: http://www.fox4news.com/news/irving-man ... y-suspects#/
Loses the legal presumption that deadly force is justified under 9.31/9.32, not loses the defense justification completely. Facts to be determined at trial if any. :rules:
That would be my thought as well.
User avatar

Jusme
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5350
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:23 pm
Location: Johnson County, Texas

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#5

Post by Jusme »

Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 4337
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Jusme wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
It also was not at night, so don't you lose the bit about recovering stolen property? Or am I mistaken on that?

rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 3326
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#7

Post by rotor »

ScottDLS wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:02 pm
Keith B wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:21 pm
IRVING, Texas - A man who shot and killed two robbery suspects in Irving is now charged for their murders.

Irving police said the murders happened Tuesday afternoon outside an apartment complex on Clubhouse Place. Three teenagers allegedly went to 31-year-old Jarrell Ivory Chaney’s apartment with the intention of robbing him.

Police said during the robbery Chaney disarmed one of the teens and all three started running away. He fired shots at them and hit two – 18-year-old Ishmeal Smithson and 19-year-old Theophilos Greer.
I am guessing the teens went there under the pretense of buying drugs, but were there to rob him. If the man was involved in illegal activities during the robbery, then he does not get to use self defense as a justification.

More here: http://www.fox4news.com/news/irving-man ... y-suspects#/
Loses the legal presumption that deadly force is justified under 9.31/9.32, not loses the defense justification completely. Facts to be determined at trial if any. :rules:
True but we had that case in Chicago where a fleeing gunman turned and shot a cop while still running away. The point of course is that the danger may not be over even when the BG are running away especially if they are armed. This story needs more info though.
User avatar

03Lightningrocks
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 11451
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: Plano

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#8

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think the issue was presence of danger in this case as much as it was that the shooter was engaging in illegal conduct that resulted in the need for self defense?

I should have said, alleged to be engaging in illegal conduct.

Mike S
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 705
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#9

Post by Mike S »

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm
Jusme wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
It also was not at night, so don't you lose the bit about recovering stolen property? Or am I mistaken on that?
For recovery of stolen property, deadly force may be justified if immediatly following a burglary or robbery (day or night), or theft (at night). There's also the caveat that using less-than- deadly force would present a significant risk of you incurring serious bodily injury (ie, if you can reasonably use less force WITHOUT putting yourself at risk of death/serious bodily injury, then you must use that lesser degree of force).

Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 4337
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#10

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Mike S wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:39 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm
Jusme wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
It also was not at night, so don't you lose the bit about recovering stolen property? Or am I mistaken on that?
For recovery of stolen property, deadly force may be justified if immediatly following a burglary or robbery (day or night), or theft (at night). There's also the caveat that using less-than- deadly force would present a significant risk of you incurring serious bodily injury (ie, if you can reasonably use less force WITHOUT putting yourself at risk of death/serious bodily injury, then you must use that lesser degree of force).
Thanks.

Of course, in this case, it's not even clear whether these yutes were fleeing with any of the guys property in the first place...
User avatar

Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#11

Post by Oldgringo »

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:45 pm
Mike S wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:39 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm
Jusme wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
It also was not at night, so don't you lose the bit about recovering stolen property? Or am I mistaken on that?
For recovery of stolen property, deadly force may be justified if immediatly following a burglary or robbery (day or night), or theft (at night). There's also the caveat that using less-than- deadly force would present a significant risk of you incurring serious bodily injury (ie, if you can reasonably use less force WITHOUT putting yourself at risk of death/serious bodily injury, then you must use that lesser degree of force).
Thanks.

Of course, in this case, it's not even clear whether these yutes were fleeing with any of the guys property in the first place...
What is clear is that Jarrell must be a pretty good shot?
User avatar

Allons
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 2217
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:03 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#12

Post by Allons »

Oldgringo wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:35 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:45 pm
Mike S wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:39 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm
Jusme wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Allons wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm Also the fact that they were running away when shot might have something to do with it too. I'm sure illegal activity also had something to do with it like Keith B said.
:iagree:

Once the threat, is over, shooting fleeing criminals, takes away, your defense of, ending a threat. Unless you can show that others were in imminent danger, which, in this case. would be very difficult to demonstrate. JMHO
It also was not at night, so don't you lose the bit about recovering stolen property? Or am I mistaken on that?
For recovery of stolen property, deadly force may be justified if immediatly following a burglary or robbery (day or night), or theft (at night). There's also the caveat that using less-than- deadly force would present a significant risk of you incurring serious bodily injury (ie, if you can reasonably use less force WITHOUT putting yourself at risk of death/serious bodily injury, then you must use that lesser degree of force).
Thanks.

Of course, in this case, it's not even clear whether these yutes were fleeing with any of the guys property in the first place...
What is clear is that Jarrell must be a pretty good shot?
:iagree:
NRA Member
US Army 1988-1999
User avatar

KLB
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:57 am
Location: San Antonio

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#13

Post by KLB »

This case seems to have a lot of complicating factors. But, whether or not it's the issue in this case, a good rule of thumb is not to shoot people who are running away from you.

ninjabread
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#14

Post by ninjabread »

If a legit pharmacist can be convicted of first degree murder for shooting a robber who was still in the store, I don't know why this 'street pharmacist' shouldn't be convicted of the same for shooting robbers running away.
http://www.koco.com/article/sentence-re ... d/19845092
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


OneGun
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:22 am
Location: Houston

Re: Irving Man Charged with Murder for Self Defense

#15

Post by OneGun »

ninjabread wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:09 pm If a legit pharmacist can be convicted of first degree murder for shooting a robber who was still in the store, I don't know why this 'street pharmacist' shouldn't be convicted of the same for shooting robbers running away.
http://www.koco.com/article/sentence-re ... d/19845092
In this case involving the pharmacist, I recall seeing the security video. He reloaded his gun and pumped two more rounds into the robber as he laid on the floor bleeding out. The jury found that reloading his gun and putting two more rounds into the robber as he laid bleeding out was murder because the robber was no longer a threat. Before that point, the pharmacist was just defending himself.

It was a tough case.
Annoy a Liberal, GET A JOB!
Post Reply

Return to “The Crime Blotter”