AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

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WTR
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#16

Post by WTR » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:43 pm

I would take exception to the statement concerning bullet travel. You are not going through a vertical sheet of plate, tempered or laminated glass ( there is also a different among of deflection in the three types). The Officer was shooting through a sheet of non vertcle laminated glass while trying to maintain control of his vehicle. No telling where the projectiles landed. Luckily no innocents where injured .


Rob72
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#17

Post by Rob72 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:20 pm

Having shot through auto glass (albeit not driving), being only 3-6 inches from the glass results in no notable deflection, depending on the range to the target. Windshields are laminate construction, sidewindows are generally tempered (why EMS prefers to pop a side window- the whole window cracks, not the localized area, as with laminate).

From the fairly famous (IIRC) LA jewelry store heist, where a SWAT sniper's bullet missed the intended target by ~4 inches. The incident resulted in LE across the country giving more serious evaluations of the 7mm Weatherby Mag and the .300 Win Mag (ultimately, "The Choice" for long range, insulated targets). Jeff Boyes, the sniper that fired, was ~100 yards away, and his bullet (.308) hit the glass panel door on, or extremely close to the frame, while it was swinging shut.

https://www.policeone.com/swat/articles ... -incident/

As seen here, it is done with the .556 NATO, a much lighter and frangible round, ultimetely to good effect.


Bottom line- the closer to the barrier, and the target, the less effect on the round. The farther from either the barrier, or the target, the more effect on the projectile (as the bullet surrenders energy to either gravity and air-deflection in travel), or it surrenders energy to a barrier early in its path, resulting in diminished range. So, with "combat ammo", inside 30 yards, shooting through your windshield with a service-caliber weapon is certainly do-able.

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#18

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:29 pm

That is a very good read. It points out that the "fog of war" is very real. It also emphasizes that training is critical when working as a team, whether a SWAT team or Mom and Dad defending the family.

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oljames3
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#19

Post by oljames3 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:42 pm

Graphic demonstration of the loss of fine motor skills. Getting shot at will do that for you.
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#20

Post by mojo84 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:28 pm

I suspect most people that criticize and second guess those that have had to use their weapons in a shootout or dangerous confrontation with weapons have never been in such a situation. If they have, I bet there were quite a few things that could be critiqued or criticized.

If this cop would have broken of the chase and these thugs ended up killing another person, there would be plenty of people criticizing him and wanting him to lose his job and badge.

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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#21

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:08 pm

Looked to me like most of the chase was on arterials. Yes the potental for collateral damage was there, but it was already outweighed by what the perps were spraying around. If they had been going down the Vegas strip, it would have been different.

Glock 17, stoked from magazine only (not 17+1). I suspect he has not been trained to count his rounds. I thought his recovery on the 180'ed magazine was decent under the circumstances; yes, it would have been better if he indexed properly. Reloading prior to slide lock (especially on a Glock) would have been good too.....

The job got done, hopefully no signficant collateral damage we didn't hear about.
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flowrie
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Re: AMAZING! Las Vegas shootout while driving

#22

Post by flowrie » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:44 pm

Rob72 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:08 am
flowrie wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:13 pm
The deflection of the bullet by the windshield is unknown, so you have no idea where the bullets are really going.
Nope, and yep, you do. ;-)

I should have stated, the deflection of the bullet by the windshield is unknown by the officer, notice the spread of shots fired through the windshield, many different angles, he has no idea where each round is going. Each shot fired is contacting the windshield at a different angle, so each deflection is different.
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