FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

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TreyHouston
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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#31

Post by TreyHouston » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:10 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:06 am
Excaliber wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:36 am
Chaparral wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:54 pm
Too many law enforcement officers think they are in military combat. I regularly see a group of Harris County Sheriff’s Deputies eating lunch in camouflage uniforms - why the heck do LEO’s need camo, especially in a large metropolitan area? Too much of a military mindset. I know they have a tough, dangerous, underpaying job, but protecting the innocent public should take priority over killing the bad guy, especially when other options were available to them.
Those guys you see in camo are SWAT officers.

Their duties often involve situations where camo is not just appropriate but necessary to remain unseen as long as possible.
Considering that most SWAT situations are in urban environments, why is the camo not in the shape and color of houses?
Bring back the military Digi uniform?
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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Excaliber
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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#32

Post by Excaliber » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:24 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:06 am
Excaliber wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:36 am
Chaparral wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:54 pm
Too many law enforcement officers think they are in military combat. I regularly see a group of Harris County Sheriff’s Deputies eating lunch in camouflage uniforms - why the heck do LEO’s need camo, especially in a large metropolitan area? Too much of a military mindset. I know they have a tough, dangerous, underpaying job, but protecting the innocent public should take priority over killing the bad guy, especially when other options were available to them.
Those guys you see in camo are SWAT officers.

Their duties often involve situations where camo is not just appropriate but necessary to remain unseen as long as possible.
Considering that most SWAT situations are in urban environments, why is the camo not in the shape and color of houses?
Well, since you asked, a quick answer can be found here.
Excaliber

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.


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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#33

Post by Grayling813 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:51 am

At least 18 officers fired their guns in UPS hijacking shootout, union official says
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/us/flori ... index.html

What a fiasco.

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#34

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Grayling813 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:51 am
At least 18 officers fired their guns in UPS hijacking shootout, union official says
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/us/flori ... index.html

What a fiasco.
A bunch of cowboys.


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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#35

Post by MaduroBU » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:42 pm

That was a really neat presentation, but it seems to suggest what the other guy did, namely that urban SWAT officers should be wearing "Crummy House Breakup" rather than woodland, or digi, or tigerstripe et c.

As for the event itself, the fundamental lack of judgment is just appalling. I think that we would've been equally critical had the felons taken additional hostages from the vehicles, but even that threat didn't justify the cops coup de main with sidearms. First, carbines with optics (which most patrol cars should have in 2019?) would've made this an unfair fight, i.e. the goal of strategy. The felons position wasn't going to get any better with regard to weaponry, which meant that even small delays would've tipped the balance of firepower massively in favor of the police. Second, all that the bystanders needed to do was kill the engine, grab the keys and run. The guy in the white truck rapidly perceived what was going down and that he wanted no part of it. If he and maybe 3 other motorists bail with their keys, the robbers are now stuck.

But backing up, I would argue that the real police failure here wasn't in the shootout, but well before. When the UPS van stopped with the cops in hot pursuit, the cops had a legitimate fear that the felons would take more hostages. They only had bad options at that point (start a firefight with armed felons with a bunch of trapped civilians as your backstop or do nothing while the felons select a child-filled vehicle to replace their immobile UPS van). As many have argued, they have access to the data about where the van is, where their units are, and where choke points are located. As this played out, they allowed dumb luck and traffic patterns to select the field of battle (sadly, the term fits), completely negating their advantages in firepower, numbers, mobility, intelligence, supply, civilian support, et c. Indeed, the location negated the police advantages in firepower (sidearms vs sidearms), mobility (equally disadvantageous for both sides), intelligence (felons and cops relying exclusively upon direct vision), supply (likely to run out of warm bodies before either side runs out of bullets), turned civilian support into an active hindrance for the rest of the foreseeable future(cf. Boston Marathon Bomber manhunt vs. now the whole of Broward County hates its own PD), and relied exclusively upon an advantage in NUMBERS to carry the day.


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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#36

Post by Grayling813 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:14 pm



Hoplite Armor CEO statement
(Copied in full here for those who don’t Facebook)
My name is Lyman Bishop. I'm the Founder and CEO of Hoplite Armor, as well as the engineer responsible for the design and development of all our custom armor solutions. I'm also the man responsible for posting various things online that have recently offended a lot of police officers.
First let me say I am not anti police as many would have you believe, but rather I put the the American people first in every circumstance. I believe in the United States Constitution and as such I recognize that it is We the People who are, or should be, in full control of this nation. If We the People take issue with our government or law enforcement, it is our right, even our sacred duty, to speak out boldly and without concern for the consequences brought on by would be tyrants.
Over the last few days I have been slandered, lied about, conspired against and even threatened with physical harm, by police officers, for speaking out against the events in Florida where police opened fire on 2 criminals in stand still traffic using civilian vehicles as human shields, resulting in the Deaths of 2 innocent people; UPS driver Frank Ordonez and Family Man Richard Cutshaw.
The idea that such a thing could happen on US soil is almost beyond belief, but what's worse is the position of many of those in law enforcement who show no remorse and target those of us who speak out.
Whenever the people stand up against police misconduct we are told to mind our own business, to stay in our lane or that we are Monday Morning Quarterbacks. We are told that unless we have done the job ourselves we have no right to speak out. This is heresy! We the People have every right to speak up against anything that takes place in this country, or for that matter, anything on the planet. Make no mistake, this event will prove to be the defining moment where people take sides. Youre either a free citizen of the United States or a slave to the tyranny closing in around us.

We the People are the single most powerful and influential group of people in human history. We are better educated, and better armed than any group of people that has ever existed and the world would be wise not to stand in our way. That includes our so called authorities here at home.
For too long we have sat idly by and allowed our nation to be picked apart by vultures. Now is the time to stand up and be counted. For years I have felt called by God to run for Governor of Montana, in order to safeguard the rights of the people but I had to wait for the right time. That time has finally come, and I would encourage all of you who are like minded to do the same in your states. What office you seek is unimportant. Only that you get involved and fight for the people. Its time we take back our country and our rightful place in the world.
My position is simple, the rights of the people shall not be infringed. If I am elected we will have constitutional carry for every law abiding citizen on day one. I will also nullify the National Firearms Act. The very thought that our rights should be held hostage, subject to bureaucratic paperwork and fees is an abomination to our traditions and our culture of freedom and individual liberties.
Where we go from here is not up to me. I will leave it to you, the People, to decide our fate, but I can promise you one thing. There are NO other candidates, in Montana or anywhere else, that are willing to draw a line in the sand and put themselves in between you and tyranny like I will.
God bless America
Lyman Bishop

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#37

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:48 pm

:patriot:


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philip964
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Re: FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

#38

Post by philip964 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:01 pm

https://news.yahoo.com/florida-man-sitt ... 28115.html

Family of innocent motorist killed or murdered by persons unknown wants some answers.

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