GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#226

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

parabelum wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am Nice TAM, thanks for the link.

“ Those who say that the McMichaels have their right of armed self defense apparently don’t realize that it can also be viewed that Arbery also had his right of self defense and I’m pretty sure felt as though his life was in danger the moment Travis McMichael stopped his truck in the road and got out to confront him with his shotgun.”

:iagree:

From the video to me at least it is apparent that he was fighting for his life.
She put that out there right after this deal hit the news. That was one of the opinions that some of my thoughts were based on.

It was also why I asked a question nobody seems to want to answer. If you were jogging down the road and a couple guys started casing you from behind and then pulled ahead of you, blocked the road, and one got out with a shotgun, would you not think you were being attacked?

parabelum
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#227

Post by parabelum »

03Lightningrocks wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 10:33 am
parabelum wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am Nice TAM, thanks for the link.

“ Those who say that the McMichaels have their right of armed self defense apparently don’t realize that it can also be viewed that Arbery also had his right of self defense and I’m pretty sure felt as though his life was in danger the moment Travis McMichael stopped his truck in the road and got out to confront him with his shotgun.”

:iagree:

From the video to me at least it is apparent that he was fighting for his life.
She put that out there right after this deal hit the news. That was one of the opinions that some of my thoughts were based on.

It was also why I asked a question nobody seems to want to answer. If you were jogging down the road and a couple guys started casing you from behind and then pulled ahead of you, blocked the road, and one got out with a shotgun, would you not think you were being attacked?

I would, and the bubbas would have likely had lead going their way too...
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philip964
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#228

Post by philip964 »

https://apple.news/Ay58Fg5p2S82l7cGMSXL7sg

Well none of this looks good. Apparently chase was more involved than the video shows. Evidence of video guy doing more chasing with fibers and dent from contact with Ahmaud on his pick up.

And then there is the Confederate sticker on the tool box.

How long before pick ups are racist?

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gbi ... 4JRu5u3JN/

More on this.

3rd guy really should have had an attorney before talking.
Last edited by philip964 on Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#229

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

philip964 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:48 am https://apple.news/Ay58Fg5p2S82l7cGMSXL7sg

Well none of this looks good. Apparently chase was more involved than the video shows. Evidence of video guy doing more chasing with fibers and dent from contact with Ahmaud on his pick up.

And then there is the Confederate sticker on the tool box.

How long before pick ups are racist?
In some areas they already are. On one of my trips to Jersey a few years back, we drove my pickup across the river into New York. It got us a whole lot of hard stares from the black community. Maybe it was just a pickup in the north that got the attention but we got back over to Jersey as quick as we could.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#230

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

philip964 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:48 am Snip...
And then there is the Confederate sticker on the tool box.

How long before pick ups are racist?

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gbi ... 4JRu5u3JN/

More on this.

3rd guy really should have had an attorney before talking.
I don't think the sticker on the toolbox or the pick up alone are necessarily racist. But when the defendant is heard, while looking down at the guy he just killed, proclaim.. "Expletive, N word" pretty much would be considered racist. At this point I would like to state that my earlier description of these two vigilantes as redneck racists has been officially proven as accurate. With that I will continue lurking the trial.
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Flightmare
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#231

Post by Flightmare »

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... er-charges
3 Georgia men indicted by grand jury on murder charges
Deplorable lunatic since 2016

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philip964
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#232

Post by philip964 »

https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#233

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
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Flightmare
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#234

Post by Flightmare »

03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 am
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
Bond should ONLY be used as insurance against someone who would otherwise flee. That being said, such texts COULD/SHOULD be used as evidence of their state of mind and motive during the trial. But yes, I agree, the texts SHOULD be irrelevant for a bond hearing, in my opinion. IANAL
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philip964
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#235

Post by philip964 »

Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:27 am
03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 am
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
Bond should ONLY be used as insurance against someone who would otherwise flee. That being said, such texts COULD/SHOULD be used as evidence of their state of mind and motive during the trial. But yes, I agree, the texts SHOULD be irrelevant for a bond hearing, in my opinion. IANAL
I posted the update as a caution that what you say on line could come back and haunt you. I think we all know this, but it was a gentle reminder.
A shame how our first amendment rights come with such restrictions.
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Flightmare
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#236

Post by Flightmare »

philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:58 pm
Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:27 am
03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 am
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
Bond should ONLY be used as insurance against someone who would otherwise flee. That being said, such texts COULD/SHOULD be used as evidence of their state of mind and motive during the trial. But yes, I agree, the texts SHOULD be irrelevant for a bond hearing, in my opinion. IANAL
I posted the update as a caution that what you say on line could come back and haunt you. I think we all know this, but it was a gentle reminder.
A shame how our first amendment rights come with such restrictions.
I would counter that it is NOT a restriction. They were allowed to engage in free speech, as we all are. However, we are not free from the consequences said speech. It is not unfair or unjust to say that we should all be accountable for what we say or do.
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philip964
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#237

Post by philip964 »

Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:07 pm
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:58 pm
Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:27 am
03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 am
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
Bond should ONLY be used as insurance against someone who would otherwise flee. That being said, such texts COULD/SHOULD be used as evidence of their state of mind and motive during the trial. But yes, I agree, the texts SHOULD be irrelevant for a bond hearing, in my opinion. IANAL
I posted the update as a caution that what you say on line could come back and haunt you. I think we all know this, but it was a gentle reminder.
A shame how our first amendment rights come with such restrictions.
I would counter that it is NOT a restriction. They were allowed to engage in free speech, as we all are. However, we are not free from the consequences said speech. It is not unfair or unjust to say that we should all be accountable for what we say or do.
To me if you are held in jail by the government based on what you have previously written, and what you have said is not illegal speech, then
your 1st amendment rights have been violated.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#238

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:10 pm
Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:07 pm
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:58 pm
Flightmare wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:27 am
03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:26 am
philip964 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:06 am https://news.yahoo.com/judge-weigh-bond ... 55083.html

Judge weighs bond. Prosecutor reads racist texts from father and son.
I don't like that they are using racist texts as an excuse to punish them before they have had a trial by refusing to set a bond. Being racist is not a crime in itself and even if it was, punishing them for it with no trial is not in keeping with our constitution. I would understand no bond if they were a flight risk but that is not what is happening there.
Bond should ONLY be used as insurance against someone who would otherwise flee. That being said, such texts COULD/SHOULD be used as evidence of their state of mind and motive during the trial. But yes, I agree, the texts SHOULD be irrelevant for a bond hearing, in my opinion. IANAL
I posted the update as a caution that what you say on line could come back and haunt you. I think we all know this, but it was a gentle reminder.
A shame how our first amendment rights come with such restrictions.
I would counter that it is NOT a restriction. They were allowed to engage in free speech, as we all are. However, we are not free from the consequences said speech. It is not unfair or unjust to say that we should all be accountable for what we say or do.
To me if you are held in jail by the government based on what you have previously written, and what you have said is not illegal speech, then
your 1st amendment rights have been violated.
I would also add that having "consequences" of a legal nature for what you say is NOT free speech.

MaduroBU
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Re: GA: "Jogger" chased and murdered

#239

Post by MaduroBU »

I would also add that having "consequences" of a legal nature for what you say is NOT free speech.
I strongly disagree; the goal of speech meriting protection by the law is to produce consequences. No law is needed to protect conversation about the color of the sky or what the weather looks like. Controversial speech does require such protections, but that takes the form of prohibiting prior restraint. The government cannot legally prevent you from saying or disseminating your thoughts. Private individuals are more than welcome to refuse to help you amplify your thoughts, a distinction which has new import now that public discourse is online (and thus, due to atrocious planning at all levels of government, private). None of that changes how consequences of speech, legal, illegal, desirable, undesirable, intended and unintended play out.

The standard for prosecution for holding or sharing thoughts, even thoughts which are intensely and widely unpopular, is EXTREMELY high. It's legal to be a racist, a nazi, a communist, or whatever so long as one does not actively incite people to illegal action. Other people may respond very negatively to your public beliefs, but the government cannot prevent you from sharing them or prosecute you for doing so. The fact that one holds such beliefs could legally be used in the investigation or prosecution of criminal activity. If a black family has a cross burned in their yard, locals who are known to publicly espouse racist views are going to merit increased suspicion and, if other evidence suggests involvement, inadvertently aid in their own prosecution. If three white guys run down a black guy and then kill him based upon essentially no evidence of wrongdoing, their prior admissions of gross racial bias are absolutely germane to the prosecution. That's not suppression of free speech.
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