Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

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baldeagle
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Re: Support HB972 - not a dud!

#46

Post by baldeagle » Tue May 14, 2013 9:37 am

J.R.@A&M wrote:Over the past couple of sessions, there have been recurring arguments that go something like this:

Pro-Campus Carry: "What are you campus carry opponents so riled up about? We've been carrying for years in the nearby movie theaters and grocery stores and you didn't care then."

Campus Carry Opponent: "No, campus buildings are special/sacred/etc. No guns on campus."

Pro-Campus Carry: "There have been guns on campus for a long time... It is legal for CHLs to carry on the sidewalks and school grounds. The line between the legal/unrestricted area and the campus building is arbitrary."

Campus Carry Opponent: "Campus buildings are special/sacred/etc. No guns on campus."

If HB 290 passes, it would be possible for non-staff, non-student CHL folks to legally carry in public university buildings, WITH NO RESTRICTION. Given that, I would carry at Texas Tech the next time I visit there, just to say that I did, and to establish a precedent to extend the above conversation:

Pro-Campus Carry: "There have been guns on campus for a long time... and now also in campus buildings since the 2013 session, and nothing bad happened. The line between the outside grounds and the campus building WAS arbitrary and meaningless after all."
Those are all fine and dandy, but my argument would be, the bad guys are carrying on campus now. Does Virginia Tech ring a bell? How about Shepherd University? Failing University of Arizona Nursing College? Appalachian School of Law? The University of Arkansas? San Diego State? And on and on and on and on. Only a fool would think that criminals will obey a sign that says Gun Free Zone. It's proven time and time again that they do not. So, by denying law abiding citizens the right to carry on your premises, what you do is make it easier for the criminals to commit their murders. That's not something I would be proud of. Nor would I want to continue it.
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Re: Support HB972 - not a dud!

#47

Post by Ace_Inthe_O » Tue May 14, 2013 10:07 am

terryg wrote:Testimony tomorrow?

According to our opposition there will be:
https://www.facebook.com/txgunsense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.facebook.com/gunfreeschools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you haven't yet, please call senators now:

Members of Senate Committee on Criminal Justice:

Chair: John Whitmire (512) 463-0115
Vice-Chair: Joan Huffman (512) 463-0117

John Carona (512) 463-0116
Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa (512) 463-0120
Dan Patrick (512) 463-0107
José Rodríguez (512) 463-0129
Charles Schwertner (512) 463-0105
Just called Whitmire's office and the lady answering the phone thanked me for being so polite and told me there have been a lot of rude/irate callers this morning. I would hope it's the anti's but she wouldn't say either way.
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." - Thomas Jefferson

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J.R.@A&M
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Re: Support HB972 - not a dud!

#48

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 10:45 am

baldeagle wrote:Those are all fine and dandy, but my argument would be, the bad guys are carrying on campus now. Does Virginia Tech ring a bell? How about Shepherd University? Failing University of Arizona Nursing College? Appalachian School of Law? The University of Arkansas? San Diego State? And on and on and on and on. Only a fool would think that criminals will obey a sign that says Gun Free Zone. It's proven time and time again that they do not. So, by denying law abiding citizens the right to carry on your premises, what you do is make it easier for the criminals to commit their murders. That's not something I would be proud of. Nor would I want to continue it.
No argument from me, BE. I definitely prefer having the state pre-empt university administrators, and I prefer not to wait another session or two for this to happen. But between HB 972 or nothing, I prefer this step. And I think it weakens their position, beginning with the position they took in Mid-March before the House committee hearings ("We're asking for local control." John Woods) OK, John, HB 972 provides for local control. I prefer state empowered concealed carry, but I'll take local control over statewide restriction.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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J.R.@A&M
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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#49

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 2:17 pm

2:15 I am loving Whitmire's cross examination of the first opposing witness.

Editted to add... and the second opposition witness (the Baylor math prof).
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass


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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#50

Post by RHenriksen » Tue May 14, 2013 2:25 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote:2:15 I am loving Whitmire's cross examination of the first opposing witness.

Editted to add... and the second opposition witness (the Baylor math prof).
that's great news! Wish I could listen in. Please do post however much running commentary you can, I'd love to be able to follow along.
I'll quit carrying a gun when they make murder and armed robbery illegal

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J.R.@A&M
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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#51

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 2:32 pm

The proponent witnesses all went first, with a notable performance from one [abbreviated profanity deleted] the UT students (the one bound for law school). He apparently made a strong impressions on Whitmire and Huffman.

The opposition Baylor prof got a lot of critique from Whitmire, Schwertner, Patrick, and one or two others. Wow.

The Senators are shooting back (pardon the pun) the typical "I would not feel safe" argument, and the "stress, anxiety, reduced safety." I think they have put the opposition witnesses back on their heels a bit.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#52

Post by Beiruty » Tue May 14, 2013 2:33 pm

The prof of Math used a 1:000,000 odd for being shot in the a class was brought up as evidence against the math professor himself!

Odd to die in airlines is 1:20,000. 50X more than shot in a class! The teacher is still afraid to hand over his quizzes! :banghead: :banghead:

The professor made of himself a laughing stock like no other. A Total failure. Senators told him your emotions have been the same 18 yrs ago and till date none of whatever said 18 yrs ever happened.
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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#53

Post by ELB » Tue May 14, 2013 2:38 pm

RHenriksen wrote:
J.R.@A&M wrote:2:15 I am loving Whitmire's cross examination of the first opposing witness.

Editted to add... and the second opposition witness (the Baylor math prof).
that's great news! Wish I could listen in. Please do post however much running commentary you can, I'd love to be able to follow along.
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J.R.@A&M
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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#54

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 2:40 pm

The UT biology professor is not faring much better than the Baylor math prof. But in her defense (:<>) the senators are not cutting her any slack.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#55

Post by Beiruty » Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 pm

the streaming is junk!
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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#56

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 2:58 pm

Whitmire just said this if HB 972 version doesn't pass, then "more than likely, if we're back in a special session, then the previous version will be presented."

Really?!
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass


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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#57

Post by RHenriksen » Tue May 14, 2013 3:01 pm

Wow!!
I'll quit carrying a gun when they make murder and armed robbery illegal

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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#58

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 3:20 pm

A string of opposing comments based on I "feel this" or "think that".

Quite a few are alleging majority student opposition -- and yet here they are opposing a bill that gives local control.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#59

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 3:39 pm

John Woods chastises Texas Legislature for not following Va Tech Review panel.

Schwertner interrupts to ask if/why Woods has a CHL. Woods says he got it for protection, but now realizes it is not a useful thing. A challenge from Whitmire about why folks carry in North Carolina.

Woods asserts that the reason for this bill is to sell more guns by the gun industry.

Edit: The guy that followed Woods is trying to be the Dali Lama.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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Re: Update: Support HB972 - debate tomorrow (5/14)

#60

Post by J.R.@A&M » Tue May 14, 2013 3:49 pm

Quite a few opposition folks for the record (not testifying). I think the final opposition witnesses are (a student counselor) and Texas Gun Nonsense rep is not a credit to his organization. Whitmire is politely wrapping him up.

Edited to summarize more typical non sequitur comments from another UT grad student citing opposition from campus police chiefs and fears of alcohol induced violence.

Sister of two CHL instructors supports the bill.

Perhaps the last witness. Idealistic father/grandfather/combat veteran who opposes the bill over fears of suicide, and who wants to live in a society wehre we don't have to carry guns. OK.
“[T]he liberties of the American people [are] dependent upon the ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box; that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country.” Life and Times of Frederick Douglass

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