HB48: Passed

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Re: HB48: Passed

#31

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed May 22, 2013 9:48 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
texanjoker wrote:While I do like this, as it saves both time and money, how is this going to effect reciprocity with other states?
That's the big question mark.

Chas.
I should have added that I don't think we will lose reciprocity with any states, but it's not certain. Several states don't require renewal classes and they still enjoy reciprocity with most states. Florida is an example.

If it does happen, then we'll deal with it in the next session after the problem arises.

Chas.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#32

Post by JKTex » Wed May 22, 2013 10:16 am

RPBrown wrote:This is great.

However, I see they took out the part about carrying on an expired license.

This does trouble me a little with the extended times it is taking DPS to do what they do to issue the license.

I guess this was another "compromise"
Then renew, on line, from the couch, in your underwear, with a beer in your hand, far enough in advance to not have to worry about expiration. :mrgreen:


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Re: HB48: Passed

#33

Post by jerry_r60 » Wed May 22, 2013 3:04 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:HB48 that removes the necessity of taking a class to renew a Texas CHL passed today. It now goes to the Governor.

Chas.
I understood HB48 as you have described however I was confused on how to apply it in context of SB 864 also passing, which lowered requirments of the class but still had them (as I understand it). Is it as simple as SB 864 defining a course (for initial application and renewal) and then HB 48 saying you don't need to take that course? Does SB 864 get applied and then HB 48 comes behind it and nullifies it for renewals?
Last edited by jerry_r60 on Wed May 22, 2013 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HB48: Passed

#34

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed May 22, 2013 3:33 pm

jerry_r60 wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:HB48 that removes the necessity of taking a class to renew a Texas CHL passed today. It now goes to the Governor.

Chas.
I understood HB48 as you have described however I was confused on how to apply it in context of SB 864 also passing, which lowered requirments of the class but still had them (as I understand it). Is it as simple as SB 864 definging a course (for initial application and renewal) and then HB 48 saying you don't need to take that course? Does SB 864 get applied and then HB 48 comes behind it and nullifys it for renewals?
You are correct. When two bills pass in the same session that impact the same area of the law, they must be reconciled. So SB864 creates a single class for both new and renewal students that is 4 to 6 hours long, but HB48 removes the need to take that class to renew a CHL. It's when two bills are conflicting that you must look to the times each passed. There is no irreconcilable conflict between SB864 and HB48, but if there were, then we would have the same result. HB48 passed after SB864, so the provisions of HB48 would control to the extent they were in conflict with anything in SB864. (Sorry for the lawyer-like answer. :lol: )

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Re: HB48: Passed

#35

Post by Myste » Thu May 23, 2013 5:12 pm

I am very pleased this passed. I am new to the board and had a question regarding timing of my CHL renewal. Since this law has passed, and is supposed to be in effect Sept 1st, should I wait until Sept 1st to renew (my license expires the end of Sept) ? I am thinking of how long it took to get the CHL originally and wondering if mine would expire before I received the new one if I waited to apply (I prefer not to go to the class especially with the cost and scarcity of ammo).

Thanks for your help!

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Re: HB48: Passed

#36

Post by thatguy » Thu May 23, 2013 7:00 pm

I have grave concerns regarding the lack of a renewal process in place and not just because I'm an instructor and my argument is self serving. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the sheer number of shooters I deal with.

First there is the typical shooter on this forum or in IDPA matches or other shooting or training venues whom train and practice and have an understanding of what that gun will do.

Then there is the more common shooter who has not practiced and has Hollywood's image of carrying a gun. While I support 2A I will tell you there are citizens who are legally carrying a gun that scare me to death. About a year ago a CHL holder shot a clerk in a gun fight and in his defense the bad guys locked him in the store but I can't imagine what that must feel like.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18661869/chl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All I can do is continue to stress the importance of training, trust in God and hope I'm proven wrong.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#37

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu May 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Myste wrote:I am very pleased this passed. I am new to the board and had a question regarding timing of my CHL renewal. Since this law has passed, and is supposed to be in effect Sept 1st, should I wait until Sept 1st to renew (my license expires the end of Sept) ? I am thinking of how long it took to get the CHL originally and wondering if mine would expire before I received the new one if I waited to apply (I prefer not to go to the class especially with the cost and scarcity of ammo).

Thanks for your help!
It's hard to say whether you could apply on Sept. 1st and have your new CHL by your birthday. DPS usually processes between 4,000 and 6,000 applications each month, but the Obama rush has increased this number to 15,000 to 17,000! DPS has to process these with the same personnel, so turnaround times will be impacted. Even if you don't get it in less than a month, it shouldn't result in too long of a time without a CHL. You'll have to decide how important that is.

Welcome to the Forum.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#38

Post by jmra » Thu May 23, 2013 7:07 pm

thatguy wrote:I have grave concerns regarding the lack of a renewal process in place and not just because I'm an instructor and my argument is self serving. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the sheer number of shooters I deal with.

First there is the typical shooter on this forum or in IDPA matches or other shooting or training venues whom train and practice and have an understanding of what that gun will do.

Then there is the more common shooter who has not practiced and has Hollywood's image of carrying a gun. While I support 2A I will tell you there are citizens who are legally carrying a gun that scare me to death. About a year ago a CHL holder shot a clerk in a gun fight and in his defense the bad guys locked him in the store but I can't imagine what that must feel like.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18661869/chl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All I can do is continue to stress the importance of training, trust in God and hope I'm proven wrong.
I'm not sure I understand your point. The story you quoted happened under the current law, renewal classes didn't do anything to stop it.
"there are citizens who are legally carrying a gun that scare me to death"
There are millions of people with guns in their homes or in their cars under MPA who aren't required to undergo any training. That must really scare you. Maybe we should pass a law...
What scares me to death is when anyone starts a sentence with "While I support 2A..."
If you really supported 2A you would want to do away with all of this infringement.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#39

Post by Jumping Frog » Thu May 23, 2013 8:13 pm

thatguy wrote:I have grave concerns regarding the lack of a renewal process in place and not just because I'm an instructor and my argument is self serving. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the sheer number of shooters I deal with.

First there is the typical shooter on this forum or in IDPA matches or other shooting or training venues whom train and practice and have an understanding of what that gun will do.

Then there is the more common shooter who has not practiced and has Hollywood's image of carrying a gun. While I support 2A I will tell you there are citizens who are legally carrying a gun that scare me to death. About a year ago a CHL holder shot a clerk in a gun fight and in his defense the bad guys locked him in the store but I can't imagine what that must feel like.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18661869/chl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All I can do is continue to stress the importance of training, trust in God and hope I'm proven wrong.
There are over 25 states that have zero training requirements for renewals. Don't see any blood running in their streets. I'll choose freedom and trust the outcome.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#40

Post by Myste » Thu May 23, 2013 8:45 pm

Thank you for the replies. It does sound like I would have a bit of a wait should I renew online Sept 1 or 2.

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Re: HB48: Passed

#41

Post by jmra » Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 pm

Myste wrote:Thank you for the replies. It does sound like I would have a bit of a wait should I renew online Sept 1 or 2.
Welcome to the forum. Stick around. Great wealth of knowledge on this forum.
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Re: HB48: Passed

#42

Post by ELB » Thu May 23, 2013 11:13 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Myste wrote:I am very pleased this passed. I am new to the board and had a question regarding timing of my CHL renewal. Since this law has passed, and is supposed to be in effect Sept 1st, should I wait until Sept 1st to renew (my license expires the end of Sept) ? I am thinking of how long it took to get the CHL originally and wondering if mine would expire before I received the new one if I waited to apply (I prefer not to go to the class especially with the cost and scarcity of ammo).

Thanks for your help!
It's hard to say whether you could apply on Sept. 1st and have your new CHL by your birthday. DPS usually processes between 4,000 and 6,000 applications each month, but the Obama rush has increased this number to 15,000 to 17,000! DPS has to process these with the same personnel, so turnaround times will be impacted. Even if you don't get it in less than a month, it shouldn't result in too long of a time without a CHL. You'll have to decide how important that is.

Welcome to the Forum.
Chas.
Myste, welcome to the forum.

Here is a data point that will probably just add to your uncertainty. ;-) I just renewed for the third time, which means under the existing law, all I had to do was go online and pay my fee. I did that on May 8th. Yesterday, May 22nd, the website shows my renewal CHL has been mailed. Didn't hit my mailbox today, but I have high hopes for tomorrow.

After Sep 1st, the renewal process should be pretty much what I experienced. But. There maybe quite a horde of CHL'ers who are waiting for Sep 1st for the same reason, and so DPS may very well get socked with a jump in renewal applications on the first of September, added to the rate of high rate of applications cited by Mr. Cotton.

So good luck with your decision. :mrgreen:
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Re: HB48: Passed

#43

Post by JKTex » Fri May 24, 2013 11:04 am

thatguy wrote:I have grave concerns regarding the lack of a renewal process in place and not just because I'm an instructor and my argument is self serving. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the sheer number of shooters I deal with.

First there is the typical shooter on this forum or in IDPA matches or other shooting or training venues whom train and practice and have an understanding of what that gun will do.

Then there is the more common shooter who has not practiced and has Hollywood's image of carrying a gun. While I support 2A I will tell you there are citizens who are legally carrying a gun that scare me to death. About a year ago a CHL holder shot a clerk in a gun fight and in his defense the bad guys locked him in the store but I can't imagine what that must feel like.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18661869/chl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All I can do is continue to stress the importance of training, trust in God and hope I'm proven wrong.
I'll jump in too. As a CHL instructor you have required curriculum which does not include ongoing shooting training. Unless you feel that the proficiency test is somehow "training" for use in a self defense situation, in that case I'm even more concerned about CHL instructors. :cool:

As pointed out, that story actually counters your argument. LEO's accidentally and negligently shoot bystanders way too often. That story is the first I've ever heard of involving a CHL holder.

I agree with your opinion that people should keep themselves "trained" if you will, but it's not part of the CHL course. There's an opportunity for you to market a good course to train CHL's in using them firearms in stressful defense situations. :mrgreen:


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Re: HB48: Passed

#44

Post by HK_USP_45 » Fri May 24, 2013 12:15 pm

The shooting part of the current requirement just shows you have the ability to control a firearm in a non-defensive environment to the point of being 70% accurate with your weapon. In a defensive situation, the average citizen is going to lose accuracy due to stress, lighting conditions and other environmental concerns. But still, that allows for 30% of their shots to go wherever. So you would expect a situation as referenced to occur at some point.

Now, you shoot the course and qualify. The actual requirement is not far off what is required by the State for annual qualification of peace officers. But, a CHL doesn't have to shoot again for 4-5 years. So, shooting once every 4-5 years isn't going to do the trick either. An instructor can try to drive home the need to continually practice and keep as sharp as possible. That is all you can do. But the State does not require combat training and/or qualification and the once every 4-5 years of shooting can give one a false sense of security.

What is a CHL? It is basically a license from the State of Texas saying you have accomplished traversing their matrix of rules and paperwork, attended a lecture, answered questions about the lecture within a required 70% accuracy, passed a background check (that may or may not have all available information about your criminal and mental past), shot a weapon that you may or may not carry with 70% accuracy at predetermined distances and paid their fee for the right to carry a weapon in public under the restrictions outlined in the law. I do not believe the constitution requires you to have a license to do so but the Courts have upheld that unconstitutional notion so we go along with it.

I see people on the street every day behind the wheel of a motor vehicle that scare me to death. And they are shooting a 3000 pound piece of metal (and other things) past me and within a distance of three feet or so. And they haven't had any training since they got their drivers license.


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Re: HB48: Passed

#45

Post by Jim Lockey » Fri May 24, 2013 3:04 pm

Thanks,

Charles

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