Another special session?

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paperchunker
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Re: Another special session?

#106

Post by paperchunker » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:26 pm

OldGrumpy wrote:From someone who has a CHL and works on a college campus - not sure I support campus carry. I have heard all the arguments for it but believe me there are just as many against it. Not sure I like the idea of 21 year old men having ready access to firearms. Arguments over girls already result in fights - what would adding potential firearms to the mix do. Before someone comes back about how responsible CHL holders are just remember the dumb incidents that have been posted about irresponsible CHL holders.
What would be a good age in your opinion? I am 62 years old and am a full time student. Would it be ok if they set the age limit at 60 ( then my wife could carry to class also)?

I am sure we would have the same blood bath they have had in Colorado. Oh wait that didn't happen did it. :banghead: :banghead:

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Re: Another special session?

#107

Post by cb1000rider » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:46 pm

nightmare69 wrote: So you are saying you don't mind these 21yr olds with CHL to carry but not at college? You sound like the libs who think if they let us carry in a K-12 school we instantly become insane child killers. Our local college allows campus carry already, you have a CHL you can carry just abide by all the state laws and you are good to go. They have been doing this for years and NEVER had a issue that Im aware of. Lots of 18-25 yr olds go to this school.
Mind if I ask what campus that is? Is it a traditional 4-year school with lots of freshmen or a commuter school like UT Dallas?

Don't get me wrong, from a 2nd amendment standpoint I support being able to carry everywhere. I support open carry.

In terms of school carry, I recognize that guns can be part of the problem and they can be a solution to a very bad situation. When I was in college I did lots of dumb stuff. I'm still doing dumb things, just less frequently. Although I support 2nd amendment rights, I'd want to see the data that shows fewer gun related incidents when CHLs are allowed on campus before making up my mind. Have any data that supports it either way?


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Re: Another special session?

#108

Post by GEM-Texas » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:51 pm

Working in the business, I would bet there are as many irresponsible 21 year olds on the street as in the school. You know of course that there can be guns in cars now - so that horse has left the barn.

How many CHL gun fights over gals have there been outside of school?

Last, what about the force recon marine going to night school or the older veterans going to night school that I know. Or the mother with several kids who wants to carry and going to night school?


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Re: Another special session?

#109

Post by cb1000rider » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:59 pm

GEM-Texas wrote:Working in the business, I would bet there are as many irresponsible 21 year olds on the street as in the school. You know of course that there can be guns in cars now - so that horse has left the barn.
How many CHL gun fights over gals have there been outside of school?
GEM-Texas wrote:
Assuming that 21 year olds are less responsible (and that remains to be seen on this thread statistically speaking) a college campus would definitely cause a higher concentration of them. IE - that wouldn't be a good thing.
GEM-Texas wrote: Last, what about the force recon marine going to night school or the older veterans going to night school that I know. Or the mother with several kids who wants to carry and going to night school?
That's a good point. Why let a few idiots mess it up for the rest of us? Point taken. There is still a risk vs personal freedom thing going on... But I remain undecided until I see some statistics.

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Re: Another special session?

#110

Post by nightmare69 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:38 am

cb1000rider wrote:
Mind if I ask what campus that is? Is it a traditional 4-year school with lots of freshmen or a commuter school like UT Dallas?

Don't get me wrong, from a 2nd amendment standpoint I support being able to carry everywhere. I support open carry.

In terms of school carry, I recognize that guns can be part of the problem and they can be a solution to a very bad situation. When I was in college I did lots of dumb stuff. I'm still doing dumb things, just less frequently. Although I support 2nd amendment rights, I'd want to see the data that shows fewer gun related incidents when CHLs are allowed on campus before making up my mind. Have any data that supports it either way?
This is a community college that alot of students go to before heading to a Uni, its a big school.
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Re: Another special session?

#111

Post by Owens » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:55 am

I'll chime in here a little. I am a professor at a community college. My line of thinking is that not all 21 YO students would have a chl. I don't believe there is a magic age at which good sense and civil behavior is is bestowed. It is too much an individual thing, and yet some never get it.
I can say that in the area I teach, the number of 21 yo is rather small, and probably a constant throughout our campus wide enrollment. The effect is that there would be a relatively low number of CHL students. What I have observed and know about a few 21 YOA students that you wouldn't want carrying couldn't pass the BG check anyway. The others, I have no problems with.
Just a few thoughts and personal observations.

Edited to add: I think that at this point in time, it all becomes mute, as I don't think Perry is going to make a move for CC, but hey, the 2nd special isn't over yet. However, I don't think its time to give up trying either.
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Re: Another special session?

#112

Post by jimlongley » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:08 am

OldGrumpy wrote:From someone who has a CHL and works on a college campus - not sure I support campus carry. I have heard all the arguments for it but believe me there are just as many against it. Not sure I like the idea of 21 year old men having ready access to firearms. Arguments over girls already result in fights - what would adding potential firearms to the mix do. Before someone comes back about how responsible CHL holders are just remember the dumb incidents that have been posted about irresponsible CHL holders.
The same old specious argument against carry revised and applied to college campuses: "There will be blood running down the ivy of our cherished institutions." The predictions of blood in the streets due to fistfights have not come true (except for in FL) and the roads and highways are not littered with bodies as a result of fender benders and road rage, I don't see any reason to expect it to be any different on college campuses, particularly considering that 21 year old men already have ready access to firearms, and that only a small percentage of them have CHLs.
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Re: Another special session?

#113

Post by jmra » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:26 am

:iagree:
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Re: Another special session?

#114

Post by RogueUSMC » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:28 am

I figure this...

If they are a CHL, they are at least 21...
If they are at least 21, they have probably been in their school atmosphere two to three years...
If they have been in their school atmosphere for two to three years, they have already proven themselves in that atmosphere...
During that 'proving themselves' stage, a gun wasn't carried where it could play a part in the whole 'proving themselves' thing...
And finally...if they have gone through the CHL process, they probably understand the responsibilities that come with carrying a gun (I feel this is evidenced by them going through the CHL process to begin with)...

Following that trail of arguments, I believe that the responsibility level of a CHL student is markedly higher than the average student...I also believe that the responsibility associated with the CHL will overflow into other areas thereby having a positive effect on the student as a whole.

Just my two cents adjusted for inflation...
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Re: Another special session?

#115

Post by Bladed » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:42 am

OldGrumpy wrote:From someone who has a CHL and works on a college campus - not sure I support campus carry. I have heard all the arguments for it but believe me there are just as many against it. Not sure I like the idea of 21 year old men having ready access to firearms. Arguments over girls already result in fights - what would adding potential firearms to the mix do. Before someone comes back about how responsible CHL holders are just remember the dumb incidents that have been posted about irresponsible CHL holders.
The debate over campus carry is not a debate about WHO can carry; it is a debate about WHERE license holders can carry.

Campus carry would not make firearms or concealed handgun licenses available to a class of people to which firearms or concealed handgun licenses were not previously available.

Campus carry would not change the laws at bars, off-campus parties, fraternity houses, tailgating events, or most other places where students are presumed to drink or engage in other high-risk activities.

Although few students eligible for a CHL live in on-campus housing, and although, statistically speaking, only a small number (approximately 15 on a campus of 50,000 students) of them actually possess a CHL, every campus carry bill passed by either house of the Texas Legislature has included a provision to allow colleges to regulate the storage of firearms in dorms.

Campus carry would affect the ability of very few if any students to possess a firearm at home, where 90% of suicides occur.

Campus carry is currently allowed in two states and has been for several years, and aside from a student in Utah who shot himself in the leg while pocket carrying without a holster and a university employee in Colorado who accidentally fired off a round while showing off her new gun (illegal in Texas) to her coworkers, there haven't been any resulting acts of violence.

In light of the fact that most campuses are large, open environments where a person can just as easily walk into a classroom carrying a backpack full of guns as carrying a backpack full of books, why are some college employees and faculty members more concerned with the trained, licensed, carefully screened adults seeking the right to carry legally than with the untrained, unlicensed, unscreened criminals who are already carrying illegally?

Most twenty-one year olds are idiots, but in the places where concealed carry is already allowed, the twenty-one-year-old idiots aren't causing any more problems than the forty-two-year-old idiots; therefore, I don't see the logic in supporting concealed carry but not campus carry.

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Re: Another special session?

#116

Post by RoyGBiv » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:44 am

The benefits of campus carry FAR outweigh the very small risk that a CHL will get carried away and do something spontaneously stupid.

IMO, YMMV
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Re: Another special session?

#117

Post by Tic Tac » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:18 pm

I am in favor of campus carry for the good guys. The current law doesn't stop the bad guys so it has only bad effects.

I also don't place much weight on the opinion of a self proclaimed college professor who doesn't know the difference between moot and mute. :mrgreen:

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Re: Another special session?

#118

Post by Owens » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Moot / Mute

(either way, it works)

sigh....

I'll say this....I'm not an English prof! :mrgreen:
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Re: Another special session?

#119

Post by Jason K » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:52 pm

Tic Tac wrote:I am in favor of campus carry for the good guys. The current law doesn't stop the bad guys so it has only bad effects.

I also don't place much weight on the opinion of a self proclaimed college professor who doesn't know the difference between moot and mute. :mrgreen:
:iagree:

What actually keeps these wild, girl-crazy 21-y.o. guys from bringing guns on campus in the first place? If someone has murder on his/her mind, a law against guns on campus doesn't slow that person down a bit....as we've seen before. Only the people who choose to follow the law are affected by the law.

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Re: Another special session?

#120

Post by Jaguar » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:11 pm

Mute point and moot point is a commonly misunderstood phrase. Mute means to silence or quiet. Moot means impractical or irrelevant. A moot point means that the issue isn't up for debate and is irrelevant as the outcome has already been determined. There is no phrase of mute point. The correct terminology is moot point. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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