Open-Carry Discussions

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Charles L. Cotton
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Open-Carry Discussions

#1

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Sat May 19, 2012 1:44 pm

I want to make a request of everyone coming into the 2012 elections and the 2013 Texas Legislative Session. As we get closer to the election and the beginning of pre-filing of bills for the 2013 Texas Legislative Session, the subject of open-carry is going to come up, probably numerous times. We have had a lot of new Members join since the 2011 legislative session and they may not know the history of that issue here on the Texas CHLforum.

My request is simple -- please keep discussions civil and respectful of differing opinions. No other subject has caused the level of acrimony and personal attacks against TexasCHLforum Members as seen when discussing open-carry. As in prior years, we can expect to see "new" (a/k/a previously banned Members) register again under new names to once again lie about Forum Members, TSRA, NRA and everyone else that does not actively and aggressively support the OpenCarry.org/LoneStarCDL version of open-carry. The Moderators will be watchful and these new folks will be banned as quickly as possible. Please do not let these people bate you into violating our rules.

Also for the Forum Members who have joined us since the 2011 Texas Legislative Session, I want to state as clearly and concisely as possible the position TSRA and I have taken on open-carry.
  • Neither TSRA, Alice Tripp nor I oppose open-carry. Anything you hear to the contrary is false. If someone unknowingly states otherwise, it's a mistake; if done knowingly, it's a lie.

    Neither TSRA, Alice Tripp nor I have ever done one thing to block, oppose, or derail the filing or promoting of an open-carry bill. A very small but vocal group on other forums have falsely claimed otherwise, but they are either mistaken or lying.
I have repeatedly stated that if the NRA or TSRA decide to support an open-carry bill, I'll support it as aggressively as I have every other bill we have passed. I'll even write the thing! Some less-than-honest bomb-throwing types have argued that my concerns about a repeat of what we saw in Texas from 1997 through Sept. 1, 1997 amounts to opposing open-carry. That's absurd, but it's indicative of the intellectual dishonesty to which they will resort. I also noted that a responsible open-carry bill could be drafted and supported, but any attempt should be preceded by an effective educational campaign to educate the public on the great track record CHLs have established since 1996. This would go a long way to prevent the business backlash that many fear, including me.

The most vocal and militant of open-carry supporters believe that open-carry will not pass unless either the NRA or TSRA or both actively campaign and support a bill. This may or may not be correct, but the bottom line is both organizations are accused of opposing open-carry simply because we won't blindly support anything LoneStarCDL wants to file.

Again, please keep open-carry discussions civil and within Forum Rules. Let's try hard not to have a repeat of 2009 and 2011.

Thanks,
Chas.
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TLE2
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#2

Post by TLE2 » Sat May 19, 2012 10:39 pm

Just in asking, if such legislation is supported by the TSRA, would the Oklahoma law be a good model?
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... (Jefferson quoting Beccaria)

... tyrants accomplish their purposes ...by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms. - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Sun May 20, 2012 7:28 am

TLE2 wrote:Just in asking, if such legislation is supported by the TSRA, would the Oklahoma law be a good model?
I can't answer because I haven't seen their bill, but to do it in the safest manner in Texas, it needs to be done over two sessions.

Chas.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#4

Post by jimlongley » Sun May 20, 2012 7:49 pm

I still want to see open carry, even what some call "Constitutional Carry" but this is, after all, the CHL forum.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#5

Post by Heartland Patriot » Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 pm

jimlongley wrote:I still want to see open carry, even what some call "Constitutional Carry" but this is, after all, the CHL forum.
:iagree:
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#6

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon May 21, 2012 1:47 pm

Folks, I don't mind discussions of open-carry, I just want them to remain civil and within the Forum rules. In fact, it's probably a good idea that we have open discussions here to offset what is likely to occur elsewhere.

Chas.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#7

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon May 21, 2012 1:56 pm

Charles, I'll do my best to honor your request.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
TLE2 wrote:Just in asking, if such legislation is supported by the TSRA, would the Oklahoma law be a good model?
I can't answer because I haven't seen their bill, but to do it in the safest manner in Texas, it needs to be done over two sessions.

Chas.
Question: why two sessions, and not one or five?
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#8

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue May 22, 2012 8:57 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:Charles, I'll do my best to honor your request.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
TLE2 wrote:Just in asking, if such legislation is supported by the TSRA, would the Oklahoma law be a good model?
I can't answer because I haven't seen their bill, but to do it in the safest manner in Texas, it needs to be done over two sessions.

Chas.
Question: why two sessions, and not one or five?
One session to make the substantive change (repeal TPC §46.035(a)) and a second session for a non-substantive clean-up bill.

Chas.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#9

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue May 22, 2012 8:58 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Charles, I'll do my best to honor your request.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
TLE2 wrote:Just in asking, if such legislation is supported by the TSRA, would the Oklahoma law be a good model?
I can't answer because I haven't seen their bill, but to do it in the safest manner in Texas, it needs to be done over two sessions.

Chas.
Question: why two sessions, and not one or five?
One session to make the substantive change (repeal TPC §46.035(a)) and a second session for a non-substantive clean-up bill.

Chas.
Ah. Thank you.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


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Texas House Committee Passes Open Carry Handgun Bill - Is th

#10

Post by DarkSide » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:45 am

http://www.texasgopvote.com/2011-legisl ... mment-7827" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Texas House Committee Passes Open Carry Handgun Bill - I

#11

Post by speedsix » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:07 am

...a year late...or a year early...

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#12

Post by LSUTiger » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:58 pm

To those who have stated that "this is a chl forum" to imply that discussions and topics be kept to chl only topics is a bit short sighted.

IMHO, CHL is a battle we have one, but the war is open carry and beyond. We as private citizens should be able to openly or conceal carry any firearms, anywhere, anytime. Government goons, LE and criminals do it! Why not honest citizens? Any restrictions imposed on us put our freedom and personal safety at risk.

CHLers should be working toward that goal ( open carry and beyond) always. If you stop fighting for more rights, you will inevitably lose the ones we have gained, slowly but surely. In a war, if you're not gaining ground you risk the possibility of losing it. The CHL forum is the perfect place to discuss this topic because that's where we are now, but we should always be looking forward to the way things should be instead of how they are.

Why CHLers? Because we are the few who are the most passionate about the subject. We have jumped through the legal hoops and hassle to legally exercise our rights. We are probably the most in tune to what's happening. I can assure you many gun owners are clueless about the law or passionate about freedom and personal security. " let the government and police handle it" types. :banghead:

We practice what we preach. While protecting our rights, we protect the rights of others who are too indifferent or unaware to join the fight. :patriot: :txflag:
Chance favors the prepared. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.
There is no safety in denial. When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.
Sometimes I really wish a lawyer would chime in and clear things up. Do we have any lawyers on this forum?


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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#13

Post by RHenriksen » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:24 pm

I agree with the Tiger. If the topic is about protecting & further restoring our 2A rights, I'd like to be able to discuss it here.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#14

Post by Keith B » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:34 pm

There is no issue with discussion open carry here if it is kept civil. The problem is we have NEVER had an open carry discussion that didn't turn into a brawl due to disagreements on how it should be approached, and unfounded finger pointing that some people are sabotaging its chances in Texas.

Open carry is a very passionate thing for many, so unless there is legilation or bills pending in the legislature that look to change something soon, it probably is best to not open any discussions unless there is something new on the horizon.
Keith
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

#15

Post by fannypacker » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:46 pm

Personally i have no interest in open carry for myself but since it is progress toward more freedom for us all i certainly am in favor of it.

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