SB11 & HB910 This week....

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oohrah
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1846

Post by oohrah » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:20 pm

I have to echo what koine2002 said. I too am a professor, and at a private university. The administration has made it pretty clear that they want to opt out of campus carry. While a number of faculty signed a petition on 2013 opposing CC, I have found a number of faculty like myself who have a CHL or support CHL.

But besides the minority of vocal antis on faculty, and the non-vocal CHLers (fear of repercussions if outed?), I have also found a lot of ignorance, just as we saw in some of the testimonies in the lege, and in letters to the editor.

In a summary of our faculty senate's recent action last semester, my Senator listed a discussion of the possible passage of CC, and noted that the Faculty Senate was "unanimously opposed" to CC. When I confronted him, it turns out there was no actual vote, he was just assuming because no one spoke in favor. He was even ignorant of current university policy allowing CHLers to keep their guns locked in their car in a university parking lot.

I think until good evidence exists after 9/1/2016 of responsible carry on campuses around the state, that this ignorance will persist because of close-mindedness.
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XinTX
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1847

Post by XinTX » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:28 am

That's troubling oohrah. When I was in college back in the stone age, when there was a highly charged issue our profs would challenge us to go research the topic and take the emotion out of it. I think Charles Cook wrote about the "blood in the streets" claim and pretty much debunked it. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/41 ... un-streets One would hope people in an institute of "higher learning" might be able to do a bit of research and dig up some fact prior to forming an opinion instead of forming an opinion then looking for the facts only if challenged.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1848

Post by oohrah » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:07 am

That's a great aricle, XinTX. I'm archivng it for future debates.

Some people put professors on a pedestal, but they can be just as narrow-minded and political as anyone else.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1849

Post by suthdj » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:29 am

so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
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XinTX
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1850

Post by XinTX » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:38 am

oohrah wrote:That's a great aricle, XinTX. I'm archivng it for future debates.

Some people put professors on a pedestal, but they can be just as narrow-minded and political as anyone else.
They can become narrow minded, perhaps more so once they gain tenure. And there are some who don't mind using their classrooms and departments as a tool of indoctrination. I think the result of using schools for indoctrination rather than education can be seen in how so few are willing to challenge the entire "blood in the streets" mantra. Despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1851

Post by koine2002 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:01 am

XinTX wrote:
oohrah wrote:That's a great aricle, XinTX. I'm archivng it for future debates.

Some people put professors on a pedestal, but they can be just as narrow-minded and political as anyone else.
They can become narrow minded, perhaps more so once they gain tenure. And there are some who don't mind using their classrooms and departments as a tool of indoctrination. I think the result of using schools for indoctrination rather than education can be seen in how so few are willing to challenge the entire "blood in the streets" mantra. Despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Here is an article bemoaning the indoctrination environment that can be found in higher education.http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/col ... sor-afraid. It is written by a leftist professor. It's written anonymously to preserve his career. The vast majority of faculty do as you mentioned above: spur on thinking. There are a few who seek to indoctrinate. I know in my classes, I've given students who wrote in agreement with me lower grades than those who disagreed with me simply because they didn't use good methodology or have good support.

That said, this author points to the source: administration caving into students' emotional "trauma." A major factor in maintaining accreditation is student retention (at the behest of the USDE). Control of the environment was long ago wrested from faculty. As a result, admin, who many times have never been a prof, are motivated by factors other than student learning. They're motivated to keep their customers (students) in order to keep their accreditation in order to keep their jobs. Higher education has become a circus due to the USDEs insistence that their ROI (i.e. people paying back student loans) is far more important than the actual educational process. They therefore lay all these ridiculous requirements on the accrediting agencies they recognize (accreditation from such a council is required for getting financial aid money). I write this as one who is intimately involved with the institutional effectiveness/accreditation process.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1852

Post by poppo » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:54 am

suthdj wrote:so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
Because apparently there are some community colleges that also have high school students attending some classes. So they wanted the extra time to figure out how to deal with it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong) that it has something to do with the GFSZA.
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suthdj
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1853

Post by suthdj » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:40 am

poppo wrote:
suthdj wrote:so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
Because apparently there are some community colleges that also have high school students attending some classes. So they wanted the extra time to figure out how to deal with it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong) that it has something to do with the GFSZA.
My co-worker had his 16-17yo son attending UTD for final 2 years of HS, living in a dorm and attending classes, getting his HS degree and earning credit towards college so how is that any different?
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1854

Post by poppo » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:27 am

suthdj wrote:
poppo wrote:
suthdj wrote:so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
Because apparently there are some community colleges that also have high school students attending some classes. So they wanted the extra time to figure out how to deal with it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong) that it has something to do with the GFSZA.
My co-worker had his 16-17yo son attending UTD for final 2 years of HS, living in a dorm and attending classes, getting his HS degree and earning credit towards college so how is that any different?
I really don't know. That was just my understanding of the delay for community colleges.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1855

Post by JollyHappyDad » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:28 am

suthdj wrote:
poppo wrote:
suthdj wrote:so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
Because apparently there are some community colleges that also have high school students attending some classes. So they wanted the extra time to figure out how to deal with it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong) that it has something to do with the GFSZA.
My co-worker had his 16-17yo son attending UTD for final 2 years of HS, living in a dorm and attending classes, getting his HS degree and earning credit towards college so how is that any different?
Speculating here, but I believe its because guns not allowed on preK thru 12 "campuses", & they think having HS students on their campus makes them a quasi HS. Oh the danger to the children.


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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1856

Post by ScooterSissy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:49 am

v7a wrote:
RHenriksen wrote:'Not sign' <> 'veto'
Sure, but not signing a bill that's 90% of what you wanted is silly.
Unfortunately, sometimes when the folks "pushing" get "90% of what they want", nothing further gets done. That leaves the 10% out in the cold.

If I was in that 18-21 year old group, I would be be applauding the actions of the governor. I suspect that there won't be a major push to go back and readdress this for that small of a group.


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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1857

Post by koine2002 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:27 pm

poppo wrote:
suthdj wrote:
poppo wrote:
suthdj wrote:so why do community colleges have to wait until 2017?
Because apparently there are some community colleges that also have high school students attending some classes. So they wanted the extra time to figure out how to deal with it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong) that it has something to do with the GFSZA.
My co-worker had his 16-17yo son attending UTD for final 2 years of HS, living in a dorm and attending classes, getting his HS degree and earning credit towards college so how is that any different?
I really don't know. That was just my understanding of the delay for community colleges.
I think it has a lot to do with official arrangements that school districts have with the county/city operated community colleges in their areas. DCCCD, for instance, has official arrangements with a number of school districts to be both a "finishing school" and the first two years of college for qualified students. I'm not a fan as it lowers the lowest common denominator & promotes a very utilitarian view of education. This makes them an arm, of sorts, of those school districts. I think this is the hang up. 4 year schools do often have those finishing programs, but they are usually on a per student basis and not on contract with school districts.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1858

Post by nobius » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:59 pm

Got the below from the Chancellor of one of the junior colleges I teach at:
Senate Bill 11 on campus concealed carry passed with many changes from the original bill. The final bill allows the CEO of a community college (after consulting with students, faculty, and staff) to create reasonable rules and/or regulations regarding the carrying of concealed weapons on a college campus. These rules cannot generally prohibit or have the effect of generally prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons on a college campus. The rules and regulations developed must be approved by the Board of Trustees by a 2/3 vote, published on the college’s website, communicated to the College community, and submitted to the Legislature. The implementation of the bill does not take effect until August 1, 2017 for community colleges (August 1, 2016 for universities).

i. I anticipate that [college name] will begin our consultation period with students, faculty, staff, and other constituents during the fall 2015 and spring 2016 semesters. More details will follow later in this calendar year.

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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1859

Post by baldeagle » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:31 pm

XinTX wrote:That's troubling oohrah. When I was in college back in the stone age, when there was a highly charged issue our profs would challenge us to go research the topic and take the emotion out of it. I think Charles Cook wrote about the "blood in the streets" claim and pretty much debunked it. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/41 ... un-streets One would hope people in an institute of "higher learning" might be able to do a bit of research and dig up some fact prior to forming an opinion instead of forming an opinion then looking for the facts only if challenged.
That would be a vain hope. Look at global warming. Has academic rigor been the norm or the exception? Look at studies on the impact on children living in same-sex marriages. Has academic rigor been the exception or the norm? Look at studies on "gun violence". Has academic rigor been the norm or the exception? What about the Vietnam War history? Has academic rigor been the norm or the exception?

In issue after issue after issue many academics have proven themselves unable to be objective and dispassionate. Their liberal leanings have influenced them to the point that the results of their studies bear no relationship to reality.

This is not to say that this is the case with every academic. There are some academics who are excellent researchers and can separate their political leanings from their research. The problem is they are the exception, not the norm.
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Re: SB11 & HB910 This week....

#1860

Post by rp_photo » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:27 pm

So when will HB910 be signed?
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