So what's the new signage going to be?

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton


Taypo
Banned
Posts in topic: 12
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:36 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#76

Post by Taypo » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:03 am

Thanks Vol, you articulated that way better than I could have.

User avatar

harrycallahan
Banned
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:10 am
Location: DFW

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#77

Post by harrycallahan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:38 am

While I believe some new signs preventing Open Carry will appear, I think that the majority of businesses will update their 30.06 signage to be compliant with the new law and instruct management to give verbal warnings (30.07) to prevent OC.
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

TxCHL 5/12

User avatar

jmra
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 11
Posts: 10334
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:51 am
Location: Ellis County

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#78

Post by jmra » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:27 pm

harrycallahan wrote:While I believe some new signs preventing Open Carry will appear, I think that the majority of businesses will update their 30.06 signage to be compliant with the new law and instruct management to give verbal warnings (30.07) to prevent OC.
You think? If you believe the media hype that would most likely result in the death of the employee.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member


Taypo
Banned
Posts in topic: 12
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:36 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#79

Post by Taypo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:47 pm

jmra wrote:
harrycallahan wrote:While I believe some new signs preventing Open Carry will appear, I think that the majority of businesses will update their 30.06 signage to be compliant with the new law and instruct management to give verbal warnings (30.07) to prevent OC.
You think? If you believe the media hype that would most likely result in the death of the employee.
Sadly, based on some of the internet discussions I'm seeing, its not that farfetched. A whole lot of "I'm not listening to the busboy, I won't leave unless I talk to a manager."


Srnewby
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:24 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#80

Post by Srnewby » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:12 am

Taypo wrote: Sadly, based on some of the internet discussions I'm seeing, its not that farfetched. A whole lot of "I'm not listening to the busboy, I won't leave unless I talk to a manager."
Also sadly, that type of attitude ("I'm not listening to the busboy, I won't leave unless I talk to a manager") is not helpful to the open carry cause in the eyes of the general public. That attitude drives us more towards the OCT/OCTC end of the open carry responsibility spectrum than the responsible CHL holder end.

User avatar

harrycallahan
Banned
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:10 am
Location: DFW

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#81

Post by harrycallahan » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:06 am

Asking to speak with management is proper and sometimes required. Certainly doing so certainly doesn't equate to OCT type activities.
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

TxCHL 5/12


Taypo
Banned
Posts in topic: 12
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:36 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#82

Post by Taypo » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:57 am

harrycallahan wrote:Asking to speak with management is proper and sometimes required. Certainly doing so certainly doesn't equate to OCT type activities.
How exactly is asking to speak with anyone other than the employee that informed you proper? If you speak with a mangager and they tell you the same exact thing, are you going to ask for their boss?

The potential for causing an OCT type scene increases every time someone decides they want to talk to someone more important than the person that asked them to leave. Choosing not to leave when you're asked is never a good thing, in my opinion. Rather than a simple walk out, we're getting into the potential for a 911 call, trespass, etc..

Isn't it just easier to do what the business is asking? Obviously they don't want your money - why try to force them?

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 16988
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#83

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:13 am

I again urge everyone who decides to openly carry to be a statesman. If one is asked to leave by an owner, agent or employee of a property owner, it would be prudent to leave. If you ask for a supervisor, then you have legally refused to leave upon being asked to do so. This raises the offense from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor. Yes, the Code provision requires that oral notice be given by the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, but I would never try to rely a lack of authority as a defense. OCT is going to be doing this kind of thing and responsible gun owners must be viewed in stark contrast to those tactics.

Chas.
Image


Taypo
Banned
Posts in topic: 12
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:36 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#84

Post by Taypo » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:38 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I again urge everyone who decides to openly carry to be a statesman. If one is asked to leave by an owner, agent or employee of a property owner, it would be prudent to leave. If you ask for a supervisor, then you have legally refused to leave upon being asked to do so. This raises the offense from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor. Yes, the Code provision requires that oral notice be given by the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, but I would never try to rely a lack of authority as a defense. OCT is going to be doing this kind of thing and responsible gun owners must be viewed in stark contrast to those tactics.

Chas.
Thank you, sir. I'm nowhere near as eloquent as you are.

User avatar

Jim Beaux
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#85

Post by Jim Beaux » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:45 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I again urge everyone who decides to openly carry to be a statesman. If one is asked to leave by an owner, agent or employee of a property owner, it would be prudent to leave. If you ask for a supervisor, then you have legally refused to leave upon being asked to do so. This raises the offense from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor. Yes, the Code provision requires that oral notice be given by the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, but I would never try to rely a lack of authority as a defense. OCT is going to be doing this kind of thing and responsible gun owners must be viewed in stark contrast to those tactics.

Chas.
:iagree:

No one will have to tell me twice to vamoose. The busboy is following orders & he in fact just may be on our side of the fence.

If I were asked to leave I would immediately comply, maybe drop a dollar or two on the table and pleasantly ask if the manager had time to meet me. I would then express to him/her my disappointment in the decision to ban me & explain why it is prudent to carry. I would also tell him/her that I will never do business with an establishment that doesnt respect my constitutional rights - hand him/her my business card, extend an invitation to the range, shake hands & walk. :cheers2:

Though the manager may not be the one to make policy, he will have the ear of those that do. It's a dollar and cents world and restaurants work on very close margins.
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
~Unknown

User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#86

Post by oljames3 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:55 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I again urge everyone who decides to openly carry to be a statesman. If one is asked to leave by an owner, agent or employee of a property owner, it would be prudent to leave. If you ask for a supervisor, then you have legally refused to leave upon being asked to do so. This raises the offense from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor. Yes, the Code provision requires that oral notice be given by the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, but I would never try to rely a lack of authority as a defense. OCT is going to be doing this kind of thing and responsible gun owners must be viewed in stark contrast to those tactics.

Chas.
:iagree:
Stark contrast is a very important point. As Ronald Reagan said in 1975 in a speech to CPAC, "... raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand ..." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OznoFCZdS8

DPS records show that we CHL holders are the most law abiding demographic in Texas. The general public does not understand this. My approach, and the approach I recommend, is to do as Charles suggests ... leave when asked. Raising an issue of any kind would tend to give the impression that all of us are like OTC/OCTC.

Bold colors.
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1

User avatar

harrycallahan
Banned
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:10 am
Location: DFW

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#87

Post by harrycallahan » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:22 am

Taypo wrote:
harrycallahan wrote:Asking to speak with management is proper and sometimes required. Certainly doing so certainly doesn't equate to OCT type activities.
How exactly is asking to speak with anyone other than the employee that informed you proper? If you speak with a mangager and they tell you the same exact thing, are you going to ask for their boss?

The potential for causing an OCT type scene increases every time someone decides they want to talk to someone more important than the person that asked them to leave. Choosing not to leave when you're asked is never a good thing, in my opinion. Rather than a simple walk out, we're getting into the potential for a 911 call, trespass, etc..

Isn't it just easier to do what the business is asking? Obviously they don't want your money - why try to force them?
There will be times that in order to resolve the business transaction at hand that a manager or someone with managerial authority is required. In my mind, by asking for the manager I am not attempting to remain or dissuade them from compelling me to leave, it is so that I can leave legally by paying for services rendered.
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

TxCHL 5/12


MeMelYup
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:21 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#88

Post by MeMelYup » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:34 am

If asked to leave by an employee of an establishment because I were wearing a firearm, I would leave. I would then write to the establishment notifying them that I was told to leave their establishment by an employee and that I nor my family will never darken their doorway again. If it were a franchise I would also inform the main office.

User avatar

harrycallahan
Banned
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:10 am
Location: DFW

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#89

Post by harrycallahan » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:41 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I again urge everyone who decides to openly carry to be a statesman. If one is asked to leave by an owner, agent or employee of a property owner, it would be prudent to leave. If you ask for a supervisor, then you have legally refused to leave upon being asked to do so. This raises the offense from a Class C to a Class A misdemeanor. Yes, the Code provision requires that oral notice be given by the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, but I would never try to rely a lack of authority as a defense. OCT is going to be doing this kind of thing and responsible gun owners must be viewed in stark contrast to those tactics.

Chas.
I agree with your statesman comment completely. However, I disagree with your assumption that asking for a manager creates an offense. I have no doubt you are, as I am too, tired of OCT's destructive antics and perhaps it is from there you are speaking. Respectfully I am not coming from that direction. If a busboy asks me to leave my steak dinner, I'll be happy to comply. Clearly I am not wanted. The reason I need to speak to someone in charge is not to argue my point, it is so that I may lawfully resolve the charges and leave.
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

TxCHL 5/12


Taypo
Banned
Posts in topic: 12
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:36 pm

Re: So what's the new signage going to be?

#90

Post by Taypo » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:57 am

MeMelYup wrote:If asked to leave by an employee of an establishment because I were wearing a firearm, I would leave. I would then write to the establishment notifying them that I was told to leave their establishment by an employee and that I nor my family will never darken their doorway again. If it were a franchise I would also inform the main office.
:iagree:

This. All day long.

The only way to force a business to make a change is to convince them they're wrong, and the fastest way to do that is to hurt the pocketbook.

Locked

Return to “2015 Legislative Session”