What are your "complaint" options?

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jerry_r60
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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#31

Post by jerry_r60 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:43 pm

Right or wrong, some of the reaction OC gets will likely depend on how OC is done. People OC'ing going about their daily lives will likely help the dust settle quicker than continued in your face marches and pushing businesses to make choices with continued carrying of long guns into businesses and in group marches done in high profile with the purpose of eliciting reaction and media coverage. Continuing the argument that it's unlicensed / unrestricted or nothing.

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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#32

Post by der Teufel » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:01 pm

While it's good to be prepared, we shouldn't automatically expect the worst. We all know that numerous opponents to concealed carry proclaimed that more firearms in citizen hands would lead to bloodshed and mayhem. We also know they were proven wrong. Likewise, we shouldn't put a lot of effort into thinking about how bad we might be treated when open carry is permitted. There may be some problems, but I am hopeful they'll be dealt with and we'll go onward.
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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#33

Post by amtank » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:03 am

When you have multiple circuits with established case law it becomes difficult for another to disagree. Even if it does happen the Supreme Court traditionally will intervene to solve the conflict of law.


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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#34

Post by amtank » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:07 am

How about doing a little community outreach with Sheriff, Police, City Council, County Court etc... Vs. Hiding your head in the sand and seeing which way it goes. I may not be The Charles Cotton but I certainly will impress upon the Chief, who I have a good working relationship, that OC's should not be stopped at all. (For the doubters, I have that relationship because of my regional leadership with one of the Open Carry groups)

I'll give you a hint. Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and Dallas are all going to go overboard.

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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#35

Post by jmra » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:06 am

amtank wrote:For the doubters, I have that relationship because of my regional leadership with one of the Open Carry groups
I'm not sure that helps much with the "doubters". :smilelol5:
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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#36

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:42 am

amtank wrote:How about doing a little community outreach with Sheriff, Police, City Council, County Court etc... Vs. Hiding your head in the sand and seeing which way it goes.
What do you mean by "community outreach?" Do you mean typical OCT tactics? "Hiding your head in the sand . . ." Don't go there; that sells on the OCT Facebook page, but not here.
amtank wrote:I may not be The Charles Cotton . . .
What's that comment supposed to mean?
amtank wrote:. . . but I certainly will impress upon the Chief, who I have a good working relationship, that OC's should not be stopped at all. (For the doubters, I have that relationship because of my regional leadership with one of the Open Carry groups)
Which open carry group?
amtank wrote:I'll give you a hint. Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and Dallas are all going to go overboard.
I suspect you are right about Austin and you may or many not be right about the other cities, only time will tell. If there are abuses, then the legislature will be much more inclined to address the problem in 2017, especially since it was willing to trust law enforcement this session. Nothing makes a person or a legislature madder than being betrayed by someone or some community that you trusted and that you supported. Open-carry has the potential to become a non-issue as has concealed-carry if people act responsibly. However, if OCT decides to be confrontational rather than diplomatic, then the legislature will be less inclined to fix the problem. OCT tactics made sure that unlicensed open-carry is a dead issue for years to come. Unfortunately, confrontation was become the hallmark of OCT and especially CJ Grisham and it's hard to change that image in the public eye. I'm not saying that all OCT "members" are confrontational and I'm sure they are not. Unfortunately, all it takes is a handful of firebrands to get in front of TV cameras to give the general public the impression that they are representative of the entire organization. Statements that have been made by Grisham and other OCT members give the impression that they are waiting for for an incident so they can pounce on it. If they do, it will be to stay in the media eye rather than to solve a problem.

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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#37

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:04 am

If someone has a problem with harassment, then they CAN file a §1983 action against the officer and the city or county. They need to be respectful and calm, i.e. no video screaming about their rights or police harassment. Trial lawyers know the "Fat, Ugly Plaintiff Rule" is very real and it has nothing to do with one's size or appearance. If the jury doesn't like you, they will look for a way to make sure you lose.

It will take years for such a case to make its way through the federal court system and the 2017 Texas legislative session will be long over by the time the plaintiff/complainant sees a final judgment.

No court is likely to certify such a claim as a class action suit.
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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#38

Post by TXBO » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:57 am

amtank wrote:........I'll give you a hint. Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and Dallas are all going to go overboard.
I don't think the frequency of open carry in those cities will afford the opportunity for many incidents.

I'm certainly not the voice of all CHL holders in Texas but inner-city is not a place that I would open carry with any frequency or duration.


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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#39

Post by Ruark » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:02 am

TXBO wrote: I'm certainly not the voice of all CHL holders in Texas but inner-city is not a place that I would open carry with any frequency or duration.
Why not, specifically?
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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#40

Post by TXBO » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:16 am

Ruark wrote:
TXBO wrote: I'm certainly not the voice of all CHL holders in Texas but inner-city is not a place that I would open carry with any frequency or duration.
Why not, specifically?
I feel more comfortable concealing in areas that I can't control my personal space with large numbers of people.


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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#41

Post by Ruark » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:46 pm

TXBO wrote: I feel more comfortable concealing in areas that I can't control my personal space with large numbers of people.
Would you open carry at the mall?
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Re: What are your "complaint" options?

#42

Post by v7a » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:17 pm

If you openly carry a gun, don’t do it while loudly singing Hakuna Matata
Federal trial court decision in Deffert v. Moe (W.D. Mich.), which held that the police didn’t violate the Fourth Amendment by briefly but coercively stopping Johann Deffert, who was openly carrying a gun (and whose actions ultimately proved to be lawful)
Plaintiff was walking in a residential neighborhood across the street from a church in service on a Sunday morning. He was wearing camouflage pants and an FNP-45 Tactical pistol secured in a leg holster, with a TLR-2 rail mounted tactical light with a laser sight attached to the pistol
:shock:

Fox News has video of the stop.

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Re: What are your "complaint" options?

#43

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:30 pm

Federal district courts write opinion-type judgments, but the have no impact on other cases. Hopefully, this case will be appealed.

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Re: What are you "complaint" options?

#44

Post by TXBO » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:09 am

Ruark wrote:
TXBO wrote: I feel more comfortable concealing in areas that I can't control my personal space with large numbers of people.
Would you open carry at the mall?
No, I'd prefer to be concealed at the mall.

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Re: What are your "complaint" options?

#45

Post by gdanaher » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:22 am

I've talked to a lot of licensees over the past weeks and the consensus is that few if any would ever open carry and then those that would would do so while mowing the back pasture or working cattle, where OC is more comfortable from that perspective, and perhaps easier to access if a copperhead comes to the party. OC eliminates any concerns for printing or inadvertently exposing the pistol. It also sets you up as a potential target while standing in the banking line. In my mind, it is better to carry concealed and let the bad guy wonder which one has it rather than OC and let them know. I'm all about personal protection so I will be sticking with CC, and hoping the OC folks behave well and stay safe.

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