UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

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UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#1

Post by ELB » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:21 pm

So first, without reading any comments/descriptions here or at Youtube, view the video from police bodycam below:



Now, review the district attorney's review of the officer's use of deadly force:

https://media.good4utah.com/nxsglobal/g ... ver1.0.pdf
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#2

Post by bbhack » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:41 pm

Too bad the County Atty was not there to show everyone how it's done.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#3

Post by ELB » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:07 pm

It appears the county attorney was cross-ways with local law enforcement prior to this incident.


19 March 2018 Several Utah law enforcement agencies admonish iron county attorney
In the letter, which is dated February 13 and obtained by FOX 13 on March 9, law enforcement officials from Iron, Garfield and Beaver Counties accuse Garrett of being “unable to keep [his] personal feelings, prejudices, and animosities from impairing [his] judgement (sic).”
Iron County Sheriff Mark O. Gower, Beaver County Sheriff Cameron Noel, Cedar City Police Chief Darin M. Adams, Enoch City Police Chief Jackson Ames, Brian Head Marshal’s Office Chief Dan Benson, Parowan Police Chief Ken Carpenter and Southern Utah University Acting Police Chief Joshua Neilson co-signed the letter.
Garfield County Sheriff Danny Perkins’ name is printed on the letter among the co-signers’ names, but his signature is not present.

14 April 2018 Iron County Attorney Scott Garrett ends re-election bid; GOP delegates nominate county candidates
CEDAR CITY — Incumbent Iron County Attorney Scott Garrett announced he is withdrawing his candidacy in this year’s election and will not seek a fifth term.

“I’ve counseled with our team, and I’ve come to the conclusion that we will not move forward with our candidacy,” he told the audience. “As a result, I withdraw my candidacy for Iron County Attorney.”
Garrett, who has been in office for the past 16 years, added he plans to finish out the remainder of his fourth and final term.

08 August 2018 Utah officer cleared in shooting of woman holding a screwdriver
A Utah police department has cleared an officer who opened fire on a woman in June after threatening to shoot her as she paced around holding a screwdriver and verbally taunted officers.
A report by the Enoch City Use of Force Review Board dated Wednesday came to a different conclusion — that the shooting was within department policy despite Dunn’s admissions that he was aiming for the woman's extremities and that he approached the confrontation having "mentally purchased" the idea that he'd have to open fire, according to documents in the case.
The city report states that "reasonable force was used" by Dunn, and it appears to support his decision to aim for Casimiro's extremities.
The report said "Dunn chose to incapacitate the female suspect using lethal force in a nonlethal manner."
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#4

Post by Paladin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm

Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#5

Post by WTR » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:44 pm

Paladin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm
Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
Total fail by Officer. Officer had an open field of engagement. Officer failed in his use of non lethal means. Officer actually closed ground and was not "chased" as the report states. Total fail in my opinion.


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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#6

Post by TreyHouston » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:58 pm

WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:44 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm
Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
Total fail by Officer. Officer had an open field of engagement. Officer failed in his use of non lethal means. Officer actually closed ground and was not "chased" as the report states. Total fail in my opinion.
So should he have just run away or get stabbed first? He tried the taser and that didn’t work! These things can happen when you have a weapon and don’t comply.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#7

Post by WTR » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:36 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:58 pm
WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:44 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm
Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
Total fail by Officer. Officer had an open field of engagement. Officer failed in his use of non lethal means. Officer actually closed ground and was not "chased" as the report states. Total fail in my opinion.
So should he have just run away or get stabbed first? He tried the taser and that didn’t work! These things can happen when you have a weapon and don’t comply.

He closed ground and put himself in a compromising situation. A bean bag round would have knocked the snot out of her. Also I saw two Officers present. Should have been able in handle her without shooting her,

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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#8

Post by ELB » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:57 pm

There were at least two suspects present, the woman and a man, and while the man was not obviously armed neither would he leave the women’s side and go to the police. No mention of beanbags being present, and if his department doesn’t use them that is not a failure of the officer

Left the officer of the choice of a) two cops going hands-on with two suspects, b) shooting her, c) keep waiting for her to give up... or run away.

Rory Miller makes The observation that in men the adrenaline surge comes early and fast, and consequently depletes quickly as well. So waiting out a male suspect Can be a good strategy to De-escalate things. He further notes that a woman’s adrenaline dump ramps up more slowly, comes later… in other words the longer you wait the madder she gets. I don’t know if Corporal Dunn was aware of this, but it certainly didn’t appear that she was winding down. Since we don’t have a corporal dunn’s Report Don’t know if he articulated this or not.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#9

Post by Paladin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:09 pm

WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:36 pm
TreyHouston wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:58 pm
WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:44 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm
Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
Total fail by Officer. Officer had an open field of engagement. Officer failed in his use of non lethal means. Officer actually closed ground and was not "chased" as the report states. Total fail in my opinion.
So should he have just run away or get stabbed first? He tried the taser and that didn’t work! These things can happen when you have a weapon and don’t comply.

He closed ground and put himself in a compromising situation. A bean bag round would have knocked the snot out of her. Also I saw two Officers present. Should have been able in handle her without shooting her,
He was making an arrest on an armed subject. The armed subject laughed off the taser and the threat of force. I don't see any bean bag gun present. Do you?

I think another officer might have shot her dead. I've seen videos of people shot dead for a lot less.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#10

Post by AndyC » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:19 pm

Saw a RATS tourniquet being used; cool.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#11

Post by WTR » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:23 pm

There was no need to close on the subject. No one needed to be at risk.


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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#12

Post by TreyHouston » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:54 pm

WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:36 pm
TreyHouston wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:58 pm
WTR wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:44 pm
Paladin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm
Honestly I thought the police officer did an outstanding job.

Looked like a failed attempt at suicide by cop to me. Criminal suspect waiving a weapon in a threatening manner saying "let's go... go ahead and blow[shoot]."

Officer should get an award for that. :txflag:
Total fail by Officer. Officer had an open field of engagement. Officer failed in his use of non lethal means. Officer actually closed ground and was not "chased" as the report states. Total fail in my opinion.
So should he have just run away or get stabbed first? He tried the taser and that didn’t work! These things can happen when you have a weapon and don’t comply.

He closed ground and put himself in a compromising situation. A bean bag round would have knocked the snot out of her. Also I saw two Officers present. Should have been able in handle her without shooting her,
He was showing strength and confidence, not backing away and looking to flee. He probably didn’t have a bean bag gun or anyother silly stunt weapon of choice. I don’t blame the person helping, i blame the crazy with a weapon!!!!!
I would love to see you handle her! Hey, it’s only a cops life right! Not like he is a person with a family or kids ir something!

Geez!
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#13

Post by C-dub » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:12 pm

Why couldn't he have waited for more officers to arrive? Are there none or were they too far away?

I get it that there were two people to be concerned with, but IMHO the officer is the one that escalated this by closing in on her. What threat was she out back there with only her, her friend, and the two officers? What am I missing? She didn't charge at him. I don't get it.
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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#14

Post by WTR » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:16 pm

:iagree:
C-dub wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Why couldn't he have waited for more officers to arrive? Are there none or were they too far away?

I get it that there were two people to be concerned with, but IMHO the officer is the one that escalated this by closing in on her. What threat was she out back there with only her, her friend, and the two officers? What am I missing? She didn't charge at him. I don't get it.


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Re: UT: Screwdriver v Gun, Homework Assignment

#15

Post by pushpullpete » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:24 pm

C-dub wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Why couldn't he have waited for more officers to arrive? Are there none or were they too far away?

I get it that there were two people to be concerned with, but IMHO the officer is the one that escalated this by closing in on her. What threat was she out back there with only her, her friend, and the two officers? What am I missing? She didn't charge at him. I don't get it.
Wtr, Same question.

Question, in your HUMBLE opinion, how many LEOS putting their health and safety at risk (because of one ding w/a weapon) would
you consider enough ? The suspect was given instructions that they did NOT comply with. The officer tried non-lethal means which
failed to give the desired outcome. They go hand to hand w/2 or 20 officers and they still have her friend there to jump on their
back or pull a weapon of his own when the LEOS attention is focused on her.
Personally, I don't care if the suspect goes home or not. I DO CARE VERY MUCH that the officer go home to their family, alive & well.

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