IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

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ELB
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IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

#1

Post by ELB » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 am

https://www.wowo.com/homeowner-opens-fi ... hdmZvQCuSo
https://wpta21.com/2019/12/09/homeowner ... intruders/
The other neighbor, who asked not to be identified, says he talked with the shaken homeowner after police left.

"They heard the doorbell ring, they heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.," the neighbor says.

Some reports indicate a person showed up at a hospital shortly after the attempted break in with a gunshot wound.


Police have not arrested anyone in the incident.
Last edited by ELB on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, drive off with gunshot(s)

#2

Post by puma guy » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:45 am

ELB wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 am
https://www.wowo.com/homeowner-opens-fi ... hdmZvQCuSo
https://wpta21.com/2019/12/09/homeowner ... intruders/
The other neighbor, who asked not to be identified, says he talked with the shaken homeowner after police left.

"They heard the doorbell ring, they heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.," the neighbor says.

Some reports indicate a person showed up at a hospital shortly after the attempted break in with a gunshot wound.


Police have not arrested anyone in the incident.
Should be a simple matter of matching blood/DNA at crime scene to the person at the hospital.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, drive off with gunshot(s)

#3

Post by Texas_Blaze » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am

two men tried to kick in the door to a home; the homeowner was inside the house and shot through the door at the men, who fled.
Shooting through a non-breached door is legal? Is attempted entry sufficient grounds for use of deadly force?
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, drive off with gunshot(s)

#4

Post by Jago668 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:25 am

Texas_Blaze wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am
two men tried to kick in the door to a home; the homeowner was inside the house and shot through the door at the men, who fled.
Shooting through a non-breached door is legal? Is attempted entry sufficient grounds for use of deadly force?
I've heard it said that technically it is (what a prepaid legal service lawyer said). The lawyer also advised waiting as well. Personally I'd wait to remove any doubt, one from the intent side, and two from target identification side. Now if my ring doorbell is showing multiple people with guns that might change my mind. Like with everything the specific situation determines everything.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, drive off with gunshot(s)

#5

Post by ELB » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:44 pm

Texas_Blaze wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am
two men tried to kick in the door to a home; the homeowner was inside the house and shot through the door at the men, who fled.
Shooting through a non-breached door is legal? Is attempted entry sufficient grounds for use of deadly force?
I *think* Indiana's version of castle doctrine includes curtilage, i.e. area immediately adjoining the house, like the front porch. I might be wrong on that, going by memory.

In Texas there have been several through-the-door cases in favor of the house occupants, usually involving an intoxicated individual who wrongly thinks he is at his own house, gets angry he's locked out, and tries to break in.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

#6

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:38 pm

Cooper Rule #4. If I don't know what's (who? whom?) on the other side of the door, I'm going to be really reluctant to shoot thru it. Without a Ring Doorbell or some kind of security cam, I don't know if I'm engaging Hannibal Lector here to make me dinner (yes, that's a double entendre), or merely an overzealous Fuller Brush Salesman or Jehovah's Witness. If I have sufficent space beyond the door on the inside (preferably with a choke point) so an identified target can't evade, and giving me space/time to identify/acquire, I'd probably wait til I could actually SEE the intruder.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

#7

Post by ELB » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:58 pm

I’ve seen pictures of the house involved, it seems to have narrow, full height windows On each side of the door, and the front door looks like it has glass in the upper half. There was also a glass storm door on the outside, although all the glass is missing now.
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

#8

Post by ELB » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:45 am

Found a picture of the incident in progress:

Image
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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, drive off with gunshot(s)

#9

Post by montgomery » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:55 pm

Texas_Blaze wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am
two men tried to kick in the door to a home; the homeowner was inside the house and shot through the door at the men, who fled.
Shooting through a non-breached door is legal? Is attempted entry sufficient grounds for use of deadly force?
Any part of their body or any object in their hand inside the home is entry in Texas. I think you will have a tough time convincing the 6 people on a jury that you did not get to pick that shooting through your door because someone is trying to get in. It could be a drunk neighbor, it could be your teenage kids or their friends, it could be someone in trouble seeking a safe place, or it could be first responders with the wrong address. I am not shooting until I can identify the intruder as a threat. Shooting blind through doors is as reckless and irresponsible as warning shots.

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Re: IN: Two men attempt to kick-in door, driven off with gunshot(s)

#10

Post by ELB » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Texas_Blaze wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am
...

Shooting through a non-breached door is legal? Is attempted entry sufficient grounds for use of deadly force?
Yes, in TEXAS, as along as it is an unlawful attempt with force.

[ I believe Charles Cotton noted in an earlier discussion of this law that "force" can be as little as opening an unlocked window or door. Kicking it would certainly seem to qualify.] UPDATE: here's what he said exactly: https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=68324#p68324

I noted earlier that there have been "closed door" shootings in Texas that have been legally justified. This incident was in Indiana, but I believe it is similar there.
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
Also note that the article did not say "blindly," that seems to be an assumption that a lot of people make. I don't know whether the occupant in this scenario used them, but there were windows on each side of the door and glass in the door itself that would have provided some view.
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