SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

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nightmare69
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#106

Post by nightmare69 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:16 pm

koine2002 wrote:There are folks in Kalifornia, being ignorant of the law, who will attempt to stop a rider, usually out of jealousy, by opening a door or poking their vehicle's nose into the space. There was a state study done where people confessed to intentionally doing this because "it's not fair."
http://roadwarrior.blogs.pressdemocrat. ... and-legal/
7.3 percent of drivers say they’ve tried to prevent a motorcyclist from lane splitting. Of them, 43.6 percent said they did it because lane splitting is unsafe and 23.1 percent said it was because “it is unfair they get ahead of me.”
I thought the percentage would be higher than 7%. If it passes I can see myself using it to get to the front of the line at a traffic light. I could careless what the "it's not fair" drivers think.
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#107

Post by ninjabread » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:33 pm

nightmare69 wrote:
WTR wrote:I agree with the punishment. However. The motorcycle driver should face punishment also.
Passing in no passing zone and possibly speeding is all I see.
Reports said he didn't have a motorcycle license, so I see a squid who shouldn't be on the street in the first place, riding aggressively and hurting the public image of motorcyclists.

If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin :nopity
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


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TVGuy
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#108

Post by TVGuy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:43 pm

ninjabread wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:
WTR wrote:I agree with the punishment. However. The motorcycle driver should face punishment also.
Passing in no passing zone and possibly speeding is all I see.
Reports said he didn't have a motorcycle license, so I see a squid who shouldn't be on the street in the first place, riding aggressively and hurting the public image of motorcyclists.

If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin :nopity
Seriously? The guy was ridden off the road and caused to wreck intentionally by some jerk. It could have easily killed he and his girlfriend. You think it's no big deal and have no sympathy because of a couple of minor infractions?

He shouldn't have been on the road if he didn't have a license (first report I've heard of that), but the psychotic old man didn't know that. It wouldn't have mattered if he did. That old man is the same kind of jerk that would pull a knife on you for accidentally skipping him in a line at Luby's.

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TVGuy
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#109

Post by TVGuy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:48 pm

Oh, by the way he was cited at the scene for both "invalid license" and passing in a no-passing zone, so he was punished. I'm still mesmerized that someone could think those infractions could make it OK to try and kill them.


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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#110

Post by ninjabread » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:05 pm

TVGuy wrote:Oh, by the way he was cited at the scene for both "invalid license" and passing in a no-passing zone, so he was punished. I'm still mesmerized that someone could think those infractions could make it OK to try and kill them.
I haven't seen anybody here say what the driver did was OK. He got prison time and at his age may die behind bars.

I am saying it wasn't OK for the unlicensed rider to be on the road in the first place. He was breaking the law, endangering the public, and it was premeditated. I shed no tears when one jerk gets tagged by another jerk.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#111

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:24 pm

So on the one hand, we have a guy driving without a license, speeding, and illegally passing a vehicle. On the other hand we have a guy failing to maintain his lane and making contact with the cyclist who should not have been there in the first place. It sounds like we have at least two people who are making the roads less safe. The fact that the car driver made contact intentionally is, of course, huge. And it is why he will be spending a good chunk of his remaining days in prison. But the illegal act of the cycle rider is what led to the injuries in the first place. His actions could have just as easily injured an innocent driver coming up over that hill.

Like some of the other posters in this thread, I agree with the car driver's punishment, and I also think there is blame on both sides here. This is not dissimilar to the recent case of a guy who waited in his basement for home invaders and then ultimately ended up executing one of them. Yes, that homeowner broke the law and will also rightly spend the majority of his remaining years in prison. And, no I don't feel sorry for the home invaders who committed a crime and ended up getting killed by another criminal (the home owner). I feel sorry for people who are victimized through no fault of their own. I don't have much sympathy left over for folks who are injured as a result of actions stemming from their own intentional violation of laws.

Most people who ride motorcycles are responsible and safe. Most car and truck drivers are also responsible and safe. There are a minority of irresponsible people in both camps and they should not be defended, IMHO. They are the ones making everyone else look bad.
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#112

Post by TVGuy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:54 pm

We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.


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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#113

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:37 pm

TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.
I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#114

Post by Lambda Force » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:39 pm

For the record, I don't feel sorry for these guys either.
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#115

Post by TVGuy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:56 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.
I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?
This is the comment that concerned me:
If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin :nopity
That's the equivalent of saying "he deserved it", which as I mentioned above is bizarre.


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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#116

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:04 pm

TVGuy wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.
I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?
This is the comment that concerned me:
If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin :nopity
That's the equivalent of saying "he deserved it", which as I mentioned above is bizarre.
I took it as meaning that he didn't feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, not that the rider deserved to get injured. Subtle difference, but meaningful.

If I get drunk and jump out of a second story window, do I "deserve" to break a leg? No. I haven't harmed anyone, so why would I "deserve" to be injured?

But does anyone feel sorry for me if I do break a leg? No, because I was doing something reckless and stupid that led to my injury.
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#117

Post by rotor » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:11 pm

nightmare69 wrote:Texas doesn't play when someone intentionally causes a rider to wreck. This guy got 15yrs for his actions. Check out the video.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.khou.com ... /428463526
Motorcycle driver does not know what a solid yellow line means either. No excuse for intentional swerve that the car driver took but motorcycle driver was passing in a no passing area as well. Just one more illegal act.

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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#118

Post by TVGuy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:16 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
TVGuy wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
TVGuy wrote:We don't know the circumstances for the invalid license charge. Did he never have a class "M" license? Did he never have a license? Was it the day after his birthday and it expired?

The old man tried to kill these two people, he then had zero remorse after he saw what his actions caused. This thread is about lane splitting, which is currently illegal. Would you have an only somewhat problem if someone was lane splitting and a cage driver shot them? What about someone going 70 in a 65 (in a car), are they worthy of agg assault or attempted murder?

Some of the responses here are bizarre.
I have not seen a single post here saying that the car driver was in the right. Everyone is saying that he was wrong. A lot of folks are also saying that the motorcycle rider was in the wrong.

Did the rider "deserve" to get injured? No.

Was the car driver right to try and injure him and his passenger? No.

Was the motorcycle rider also in the wrong? Yes.

Could the rider's actions have injured someone else? Yes.

Could this whole incident have been avoided if the motorcycle rider been responsible and followed the law? Yes.

These are the consistent responses throughout this thread. Which part do you find to be "bizarre"? Do you not believe there is mutual fault here?
This is the comment that concerned me:
If he was injured while breaking the law, here's the world's smallest violin :nopity
That's the equivalent of saying "he deserved it", which as I mentioned above is bizarre.
I took it as meaning that he didn't feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, not that the rider deserved to get injured. Subtle difference, but meaningful.

If I get drunk and jump out of a second story window, do I "deserve" to break a leg? No. I haven't harmed anyone, so why would I "deserve" to be injured?

But does anyone feel sorry for me if I do break a leg? No, because I was doing something reckless and stupid that led to my injury.

Not sure how you don't see the difference there. In the example above, you chose to jump out of the window (stupidly) and got hurt. This is not the same as the incident we are discussing.

Let's make it the same...

We are at a party and Soccerdad is drunk. He acts like he might and tells me he will jump out of the window, so I grab some large knives out of the kitchen and jam them in the ground below, pointing upward toward the window.

Soccerdad jumps and thinks it's a good idea to pull his girlfriend out with him, both land on the knives and nearly die.

Yes, Soccerdad made a poor decision. By putting the knives down there I was a complete moron and criminally responsible.

There is a reason the old man is in prison and the rider only got a couple of tickets.

I'm not advocating breaking the law. I've never driven without a license, or insurance. I can't say I've never driven or ridden over the speed limit. The number of people driving without a license or insurance makes me frustrated, but that doesn't mean I'm going to open fire on one.


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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#119

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:39 pm

TVGuy wrote: Not sure how you don't see the difference there. In the example above, you chose to jump out of the window (stupidly) and got hurt. This is not the same as the incident we are discussing.

Let's make it the same...

We are at a party and Soccerdad is drunk. He acts like he might and tells me he will jump out of the window, so I grab some large knives out of the kitchen and jam them in the ground below, pointing upward toward the window.

Soccerdad jumps and thinks it's a good idea to pull his girlfriend out with him, both land on the knives and nearly die.

Yes, Soccerdad made a poor decision. By putting the knives down there I was a complete moron and criminally responsible.

There is a reason the old man is in prison and the rider only got a couple of tickets.

I'm not advocating breaking the law. I've never driven without a license, or insurance. I can't say I've never driven or ridden over the speed limit. The number of people driving without a license or insurance makes me frustrated, but that doesn't mean I'm going to open fire on one.
The rider did something dumb, illegal, and dangerous. He got hurt. I'm not saying he "deserved" to get hurt. But I am also saying that I don't feel sorry for him. I do feel sorry for his passenger. She did nothing dumb or dangerous other than trust her life to the rider of that motorcycle.

Separately, the car driver also did something illegal. He is going to prison for that action. I also don't feel sorry for him. What the car driver did was worse than what the rider did. But both had the potential to harm other people.

This isn't a mutually exclusive situation. They can both be in the wrong, and IMHO, they both are.

And no one opened fire on anyone else in this case, as far as I know. But if someone had randomly opened fire for no reason, they also would have been in the wrong. And miraculously, even that would not suddenly erase the fact that the rider was breaking the law. He would STILL be in the wrong.
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Re: SB 288 - Motorcycle "lane splitting" bill

#120

Post by TreyHouston » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:20 am

Wow! This is getting UGLY! Calm down guys! Bikers should realize that they need to follow the same laws as everyone else. Also, it was un called for the guys to stear out of his lane to "teach a lesson" to a TRAFFIC OFFICE " this possibility causing the DEATH of others.

Just my 2 sence
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