HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

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Middle Age Russ
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HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#1

Post by Middle Age Russ » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:03 pm

... in the Austin Statesman. The stance seems pretty predictable given the publisher, but the author would have us believe he is like us and that "public safety" concerns should trump individual liberty.

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/opinion ... Fl2Ar1duO/
Russ
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#2

Post by steveincowtown » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:29 pm

Camacho is a former Texas peace officer and CEO and chief instructor at Safety Measures
Sounds like someone doesn't want to lose the $$$$$ they are getting from teaching LTC course.
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TVGuy
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#3

Post by TVGuy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:31 pm

The author that is supposedly pro-2a is a board member of Texas Gun Sense.


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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#4

Post by apostate » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:35 pm

If either passes, individuals who want to buy, own or handle handguns could do so without ever taking a gun training class or ever proving they know the least thing about handling and firing a handgun.
So... the same as now? He doesn't sound like a particularly knowledgeable instructor. No purchase permit is required in Texas, although maybe they are where he comes from. :waiting:
Last edited by apostate on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TVGuy
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#5

Post by TVGuy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:46 pm

I don't believe he is very intelligent. On his company's Facebook page he uses an article about a crazy man that took a LEO's gun and shot him with it as "proof" that we need background checks.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/safetymeasu ... e_internal

See post on April 4 about "New Mexico man accused of shooting deputy claims he is Jesus"


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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#6

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:04 pm

TVGuy wrote:The author that is supposedly pro-2a is a board member of Texas Gun Sense.
http://www.txgunsense.org/about
Advisory Board
Raul Camacho, Austin
No conflict of interest here....nothing to see....move along you deplorables.


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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#7

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:09 pm

TVGuy wrote:I don't believe he is very intelligent. On his company's Facebook page he uses an article about a crazy man that took a LEO's gun and shot him with it as "proof" that we need background checks.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/safetymeasu ... e_internal

See post on April 4 about "New Mexico man accused of shooting deputy claims he is Jesus"
Perhaps Mr. Camacho needs to have his firearms confiscated until he undergoes a thorough mental health examination. He's apparently suffering some sort of derangement when he believes that this is an example of the need for background checks.

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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#8

Post by Jusme » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:15 pm

As soon as he used the phrase " common sense" I quit reading.

His argument, just like these of left wing gun grabbers, assumes an immediate inability of people to exercise a Constitutional right, responsibly. The right of free speech has been used irresponsibly, as have any other right guaranteed by our founding fathers. That is no excuse to deny those rights. Just as every defendant, is innocent until proven guilty, no right should be denied someone without due process.
I understand that there are people who don't demonstrate proper gun handling skills, but no other right requires a proficiency test to be exercised. No where in the Constitution, is there a requirement to "earn" a right.
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#9

Post by ninjabread » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:29 pm

I think they're both still pending in committee so Camacho man might get his wish.
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#10

Post by Middle Age Russ » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:04 pm

When one claims to be Pro-2A and at the same time cites "public safety" in his arguments to deny or limit individual rights, cognitive dissonance has seemingly taken away any ability to reason. This author is desperately afflicted with this malady. Being "Pro-2A" hinges on a firm appreciation of Individual Liberty with its attendant responsibility and accountability. "Public safety" arguments almost always center on denying individual liberty. There may be a tiny bit of common ground -- where individual liberty serves public safety -- but it is rare.

Beyond that, he clearly isn't interested in facts or how the proposed legislation affects current laws. The mis-information he presents is right in line with the emotional arguments relied on by Mom's Demand, who he appears to be affiliated with. He claims to be one of us (Pro-2A and a firearms instructor). While he may indeed be a firearms instructor, he is no friend of individual liberty or the Second Amendment.
Russ
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#11

Post by tx mountaineer » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:15 pm

apostate wrote:
If either passes, individuals who want to buy, own or handle handguns could do so without ever taking a gun training class or ever proving they know the least thing about handling and firing a handgun.
So... the same as now? He doesn't sound like a particularly knowledgeable instructor. No purchase permit is required in Texas, although maybe they are where he comes from. :waiting:
:iagree:

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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#12

Post by Flightmare » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:29 pm

I found some of his points amusing;
I surveyed 756 my customers — a clientele of largely Republican and politically independent handgun owners — and the results were overwhelming. Ninety-seven percent said training and education for handgun owners is beneficial, with the remaining 3 percent indicating it was somewhat beneficial.
I won't disagree with that statement. Education and training ARE beneficial
Ninety-two percent of respondents said they gained knowledge after taking a handgun safety course
I know I personally have gained knowledge from taking courses. This is not limited to gun safety courses though. Again, no argument from me.
while 92 percent think training should be required.
Now we have an issue where I disagree. Training is not mandatory to exercise any other right that is guaranteed in the Constitution.
Most telling, 97 percent believe that taking a safety education course could prevent gun injuries caused by carelessness and ignorance.
I will agree with this as well. The NRA has some excellent classes that anyone can take. But I do NOT believe they should be mandatory, anymore than classes should be mandatory in order to vote, go to church, or exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed rights.
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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#13

Post by Papa_Tiger » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:49 am

For better or worse, if you want to hear and see what Mr. Camacho stated in his testimony to the House committee, it can be found below:

House Committee on Homeland Security and Public Safety - 3/28/2017

HB 375 Testimony - Starting at 2:41:06

Chairman King - Mr. Camacho?
Raul Camacho - Yes.
King - I'm sorry we've only got two mics there.
Camacho - That's ok, that's ok. Uh good afternoon. My name is Raul Camacho, I'm a licensed peace officer, firearms instructor and the owner of Safety Measures. Um. How you call it. Eight years or so I've been in law enforcement.
King - And are you testifying…
Camacho - I'm going to be testifying against it.
King - All right.
Camacho - 375
King - All right, and you are representing yourself.
Camacho - Yes sir, and Safety Measures, yes sir.
So the 8 years I've been a licensed peace officer, two times I had to draw my gun on someone, two times it was off duty, so four times total. My staff and I exercise our Second Amendment rights responsibly and we hope others do the same.
I'm here to oppose HB 375 because it's taking away much needed education and training standards for citizens that want to carry. Today you are going to hear a lot of rhetoric that people have a right to bear arms and that the right should not be infringed. Their belief and ideology that any right is unrestricted is totally at odd with history, the law, and reality. Nearly every idea in the Bill of Rights comes with restrictions, limitations, and some sort of regulation. The right to bear arms is no different. You are also going to hear rhetoric that constitutional carry will lower crimes. We’ve passed out a packet for you guys to review. You’ll see some data of each state that shows different. Overall crime has gone down throughout the nation, but violent crimes such as murder and aggravated assault has gone up in many states including several states that practice constitutional carry, such as Arizona and Alaska, Montana and a couple other states. The License to Carry program has played a huge role in educating people about laws relating to the use of force, proper storage, firearms safety, correcting bad habits and much more. No one in this building would want a police officer to carry a gun who has not gone through mandatory training. The standards should be the same for those who want to carry in our streets. Carrying a gun on a daily basis is a lifestyle that requires skills, discipline, continuous training, and a proper mindset. I rest my case.
King – Thank you.

HB 1911 Testimony – Starting at 5:39:39

Chariman King – Mr. Camacho, if you would please state your name, who you represent and if you are testifying on, for, or against HB 1911.
Raul Camacho – Yes sir. My name is Raul Camacho, with Safety Measures. I’m here to oppose bill 1911. I’m a firearm instructor, practitioner of the Second Amendment. I train people to get their license and so forth, I train people who don’t want to get their license as well, so I’m a big, a very big proponent of the, what’s it called, of the Second Amendment. I wanted to share that paper there with ya, as it is the reason why I oppose 1911. Bill 1911 and the previous bill that we talked about will make it harder for law enforcement to deal with some of the radicals that we’re dealing with in our state. We have constitutional extremists, we have folks out there that misinterpret the Constitution and there are folks out here that do not respect other people’s opinion. And so, an hour ago, I was being bombarded by one of the staff members here because I had a different opinion about the Second Amendment.
King – Don’t feel bad. I had one post the other day that I had a target on my back.
Camacho – I’m used to it, I’m used to it. But this behavior was not like this 20 years ago.
King – Someone who actually testified today, by the way.
Camacho – Ok. Good. <laughter> But this behavior has changed drastically. I understand that people want more rights and I think that we’re going that route, but to demean others because others don’t agree with your rights or whatever, there are some things in here that you guys propose every year that I might not agree with, but I’m not going to bash ya. I at least have the respect to do everything civilly. The problem with this bill here, like I said is it is going to open up a can of worms for more folks to act childish I guess. Their behavior should not be tolerated. And this is why I oppose this bill. It is going to allow more of these people to speak whatever they want and bash others. There’s a lot of shooting ranges, a lot of gun stores that feel the same way I do. Actually on the previous handout I gave you on the previous bill, it shows that 92 % of my LTC students support training and so, we have a whole different view of the Constitution. I’m all for it. If I wasn’t for it I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing. But I just wanted to bring up this matter that behavior, childish behavior will affect the future of Texas if we continue allowing this to happen. Thank you.
King – Members? Thank you.
Camacho – Thank you.

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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#14

Post by TVGuy » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:56 am

Under oath, shouldn't he have mentioned he's also representing Texas Gun Sense?

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Re: HB1911 and HB375 Editorial Opinion

#15

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:14 am

TVGuy wrote:Under oath, shouldn't he have mentioned he's also representing Texas Gun Sense?
What I find remarkable is that not one single member of the committee asked him if he was also speaking in his capacity as a member of the Advisory Board of Texas Gun Sense, a statewide advocacy group for the passage of more restrictive gun laws.

Who exactly makes up that committee, anyways? And can THEY be trusted?
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