SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

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ScottDLS
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#16

Post by ScottDLS » Sat May 20, 2017 7:46 pm

SRO1911 wrote:
gljjt wrote:
So, there is a special carve out of defense to the prosecution for 30.06/07 for these volunteers while not on duty? On duty, I'm all for it. Serving the public and all. Off duty, I'm against it. They are no different than me then and I don't get that "privilege". No special snowflakes.
Please define on duty?
I wasn't "on duty" last night - I was having birthday cake with my 8 year old, then the tones dropped.
I went directly to the patient, let the non med cert guys bring the engine - I carry the same kit the engine does plus a little.
Stopped the bleeding, hopefully saved the digits...went back to birthday party in time to help with clean up.

Ive been fairly vocal against carveouts for protected classes, and this bill hits pretty close to that - the thing that gets me, is this bill is NOT permissive, it provides a defense to prosecution. It is also very broad - and serves indiscriminately. Certainly anyone who can get a LTC can, if they choose, join the bedraggled ranks of those who try to give a little back.

I would much rather see hb560 or similar pass, but untill then I will settle for chipping away.
I don't really mind the carve outs, though I'd much rather see HB360. On the Defense to Prosecution issue though 46.15 is only a Defense (to 46.02 UCW) for LTC, cops, etc.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


gljjt
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#17

Post by gljjt » Sun May 21, 2017 8:56 am

So, as a volunteer FF / EMT / etc. you think 30.06/07 shouldn't apply to you when you are out shopping, eating out, etc not at that moment "on duty"? I get it, when the tones go, you carry your weapon as you should, but the rest of the time why should you be more "privileged" than those who aren't first responders? And the answer isn't "join the ranks" if you want the "privilege". When you are off duty why can't you leave it in the car like everyone else when they are at a posted location? And don't say you are always on duty. You aren't. On call maybe but not on duty. In principle, I'm not against the bill, but it sets / continues a bad precedent. The part of the bill that I have issue with is the off duty part. It does create a special class. That's my issue.

In thinking on this some more, I am starting to see this as an incremental step in the right direction. I agree with you that HB560 was the good solution, but I'm frustrated that the OC and constitutional carry activists killed better legislation both last session and this session and now we settle for carve outs.

I appreciate what you do and want you to be protected. For what's it's worth, I work for the state in an emergency management role and have been involved in multiple large emergencies (being away from home for 7 hurricanes) in that role, so I know a little of what you feel.


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ninjamedic2293
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#18

Post by ninjamedic2293 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:20 pm

I agree with many of the points in this thread. However it looks like HB435 will pass (which creates the "elitist" carve outs 24/7 for volunteers) and unfortunately the much better and more narrowly tailored bill that included paid responders but only applied to those on duty will die in Calendars tonight. For those of you who helped I am greatful. Perhaps we will make it next session and be able to do what the volunteers can.

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RoyGBiv
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#19

Post by RoyGBiv » Mon May 22, 2017 8:31 am

ninjamedic2293 wrote:I agree with many of the points in this thread. However it looks like HB435 will pass (which creates the "elitist" carve outs 24/7 for volunteers) and unfortunately the much better and more narrowly tailored bill that included paid responders but only applied to those on duty will die in Calendars tonight. For those of you who helped I am greatful. Perhaps we will make it next session and be able to do what the volunteers can.
Until I read the above post I didn't see this other important difference between the two Bills....
HB 435 and SB 1408 both have very similar definitions of "Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel"... But HB 435 does not include paid, full time EMS.

HB 435:
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel"
includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services
volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code,
and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the
benefit of the general public during emergency situations. The
term does not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement
officer, as those terms are defined by Section 1701.001,
Occupations Code, who is performing law enforcement duties.
SB 1408:
(2) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes
a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as
defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and an
individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit
of the general public during emergency situations.
However...... SB 1408 goes on to include changes to section 411 that also cover paid first responders, where HB 435 does not.

From SB 1408 (emphasis mine)
Sec. 411.184. ON-DUTY FIRST RESPONDER TRAINING COURSE.
(a) In this section, "first responder" means a public safety
employee or volunteer whose duties include responding rapidly to an
emergency. The term includes fire protection personnel, including
volunteer firefighters, and emergency medical services personnel,
including emergency medical services volunteers. The term does not
include commissioned law enforcement personnel.
That stinks!!!! I can certainly see now why a professional, full-time EMS worker would be very unhappy with SB 1408 not making it to a vote.

Still.... Calling HB 435 "elitist" and thereby intimating that SB 1408 is somehow not creating carve outs also .... ??

I absolutely support the inclusion of paid EMS workers in whatever gets done this session. I wish the Bills went farther and lifted all restrictions on all of us, but incremental progress is still progress.

Thanks for pointing out the missing ingredient from HB 435, I had completely missed it until now.

ETA: I still think HB 435 is the "better bill" from the perspective of the breadth of protections it provides (HB 1408 does not change 30.06/07) and in that it does not require up to 20 hours of additional training, but from the perspective of a professional, paid EMS provider HB 435 is completely useless, it appears.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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parabelum
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#20

Post by parabelum » Mon May 22, 2017 4:00 pm

Anyone have an update on this bill?
III%


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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#21

Post by Papa_Tiger » Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pm

SB 1408 is dead as it wasn't placed on any House Calendar by 10:00 PM yesterday.

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parabelum
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#22

Post by parabelum » Mon May 22, 2017 5:51 pm

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Again, a huge thanks to all who supported this bill for their hard work!

The rats with "D" and "R" who either did nothing, or who actively worked to defeat/kill this and other pro 2A bills need to get kicked out of our Chambers.

Republican Party will be decimated in the upcoming elections.
III%

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DEB
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#23

Post by DEB » Mon May 22, 2017 6:24 pm

parabelum wrote::banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Again, a huge thanks to all who supported this bill for their hard work!

The rats with "D" and "R" who either did nothing, or who actively worked to defeat/kill this and other pro 2A bills need to get kicked out of our Chambers.

Republican Party will be decimated in the upcoming elections.
Gosh I pray not. I do understand the anger and frustration folks feel, but putting the socialists back in charge here in Texas sure aint the answer. I remember when Texas was blue, especially where I currently live and it wasn't any fun. Think your mad now? Put the Demoncrats in charge, watch all what we have gained go quickly California style. Where all we could hope for is a National referendum, like those folks in CALGUNS are hoping for. I say no thank you. I would rather be a bit disappointed at not getting more rights, than be absolutely horrified watching gun rights go down the drain. Nope, I will still vote Republican, complain as is my right and keep fighting to gain rights. I haven't lost anything during this session, matter of fact have gained a little bit. More folks can afford to get their LTC and Churches appear to be able to have their own security. Go back to 1990 and see our advancement. I remember where you better not get caught with a pistol or a knife that could open automatically, now I can open carry and carry an automatic knife, that is also over 5". Not everything I know, but there it is. So return to those days? No Siree! :tiphat:
Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Teddy Roosevelt"
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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#24

Post by Papa_Tiger » Mon May 22, 2017 8:36 pm

DEB wrote:
parabelum wrote::banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Again, a huge thanks to all who supported this bill for their hard work!

The rats with "D" and "R" who either did nothing, or who actively worked to defeat/kill this and other pro 2A bills need to get kicked out of our Chambers.

Republican Party will be decimated in the upcoming elections.
Gosh I pray not. I do understand the anger and frustration folks feel, but putting the socialists back in charge here in Texas sure aint the answer. I remember when Texas was blue, especially where I currently live and it wasn't any fun. Think your mad now? Put the Demoncrats in charge, watch all what we have gained go quickly California style. Where all we could hope for is a National referendum, like those folks in CALGUNS are hoping for. I say no thank you. I would rather be a bit disappointed at not getting more rights, than be absolutely horrified watching gun rights go down the drain. Nope, I will still vote Republican, complain as is my right and keep fighting to gain rights. I haven't lost anything during this session, matter of fact have gained a little bit. More folks can afford to get their LTC and Churches appear to be able to have their own security. Go back to 1990 and see our advancement. I remember where you better not get caught with a pistol or a knife that could open automatically, now I can open carry and carry an automatic knife, that is also over 5". Not everything I know, but there it is. So return to those days? No Siree! :tiphat:
Ummm... nothing is certain until Sine Die (Monday, May 29). Also be sure that you read to see what actually passed. HB1935 (Knife bill) still has not passed out of the Senate. Granted it is on the Local and Consent calendar, but as was seen in the Mother's Day Massacre, that is no guarantee that a bill will make it out by the end of the session. SB2065 (Church volunteer security by way of amendment) still has to be approved by the House and then go back to the Senate for concurrence.

It ain't over until it is over.

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Re: SB 1408 - Call to Action ***Need your help***

#25

Post by Daddio-on-patio » Tue May 23, 2017 9:19 am

ninjamedic2293 wrote:HB435 only applies to volunteers and gives them privileges at all times, I am thankful for that legislation as well and it will apply to me as I volunteer as a firefighter in my home community. It does not however apply to paid 1st responders, every time I have felt threatened has been while on the clock working for a major city controlled by the democratic party. SB1408 is very much needed as well.
Very much agree. I am employed by a north Texas county as an EMS responder. There are 7 different volunteer FD's in my district. They are invaluable to the needs of providing services to the community. If the call requires an ambulance, we are responsible for all patient care and transport. HB435 would not allow paid responders any defense. And I assure you, the volunteers are not the only targets. We wear a uniform that some in the public look upon as presumed authority. Many times the VFD's are in street clothes able to blend in with other bystanders on scene.
I appreciate both bills.
Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

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