This is extra wishful...51% changes

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bigtek
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#16

Post by bigtek » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:00 pm

The Wall wrote:I think everyone knows what a bar is. An alcoholic beverage drinking establishment.
You may know a bar when you see one but TABC says a lot of bowling alleys are 51% bars. Even kids gymnastics can be 51% bars according to TABC. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1112090
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The Wall
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#17

Post by The Wall » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:13 pm

bigtek wrote:
The Wall wrote:I think everyone knows what a bar is. An alcoholic beverage drinking establishment.
You may know a bar when you see one but TABC says a lot of bowling alleys are 51% bars. Even kids gymnastics can be 51% bars according to TABC. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1112090
Well, the new law should take TABC out of the picture in determining what a bar is. A bar should be a place where 99% of income is from alcohol. :lol:


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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#18

Post by The Wall » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:15 pm

The Wall wrote:
bigtek wrote:
The Wall wrote:I think everyone knows what a bar is. An alcoholic beverage drinking establishment.
You may know a bar when you see one but TABC says a lot of bowling alleys are 51% bars. Even kids gymnastics can be 51% bars according to TABC. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1112090
Well, the new law should take TABC out of the picture in determining what a bar is. A bar should be a place where 99% of income is from alcohol. And you have to be 21 to be on the premises. :lol:


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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#19

Post by srothstein » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:23 pm

ScottDLS wrote:I have never seen a wine or liquor store that "sells" anything for on premises consumption. I've been in many with blue signs that offer samples. Are any stores that offer samples required to get an on premises license?
No on-premise license needed for samples since they are not being "sold". I am not aware of a liquor store that sells for both on and off premise consumption, but a lot of beer licenses are that way, as are a lot of winery licenses. One problem Texas has is that our business model for drinking is still based on 1935 economics and technology. We need to redo it and hotels, wineries, and beer pubs have really twisted the laws up.

We use a basic three tier model, which means that there is a manufacturer who must sell to a wholesaler who sells to a retailer who sells to the public. Hotels with bars in them, room service, and mini-bars required a rethinking of the retail end, but basically fit in the three tier model. Brew pubs are a whole other animal though since they manufacture and retail, and now are trying to get into some limited wholesaling too. Wineries generally also do all three at one location, including retailing for on and off premises consumption.

I am not up on the latest rulings and how TABC is trying to keep up. They are at least trying, because when I was there they were refusing to put the gun sign information on the public database because it reveals proprietary information (how much of the sales is from alcohol). I pointed out back in 2007 or so that the license application did not match the law and a beer joint could be selling enough for off-premises to drop it below the 51%. I was not able to win that argument at the time. Maybe someone else can have better luck than me. And I guess I should check the license application to be sure it is not already corrected.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#20

Post by MeMelYup » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:30 pm

What I understand from listening to Charles is that doing away with most of 46.03/.035 will stop things like the Texas State Fair being off limits for LTC's because of someone's 51% sign being posted at the entry gate. A concert being off limits because a vendor has used that address for his license to sell beer, therefore the entire location is listed as 51%. The Ft Worth or Waco zoos being off limits to LTC because the managing company or a vendor has a license to sell alcohol at that location and uses that address in the license.

All we need to do is get most of 46.03 and 46.035 not applying to LTC.

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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#21

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:45 pm

MeMelYup wrote:What I understand from listening to Charles is that doing away with most of 46.03/.035 will stop things like the Texas State Fair being off limits for LTC's because of someone's 51% sign being posted at the entry gate. A concert being off limits because a vendor has used that address for his license to sell beer, therefore the entire location is listed as 51%. The Ft Worth or Waco zoos being off limits to LTC because the managing company or a vendor has a license to sell alcohol at that location and uses that address in the license.

All we need to do is get most of 46.03 and 46.035 not applying to LTC.
In other words...eliminate 46.035 since it ONLY applies to LTC, and then make LTC an exception to 46.03. The Ft. Worth Zoo does not have a 51% sign, so therefore the rule doesn't apply and even if it did, it would only be to buildings. State Fair used to post 51% signs, but since the definition of "premises" doesn't include outdoors, that was bogus. Unfortunately, that didn't stop them from physically preventing you from entering. Eventually they stopped posting.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#22

Post by Alf » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:08 pm

Getting rid of 46.035 is a good idea but I stopped stressing about it a while back.

When I was young, M1 Carbines were cheap and plentiful, and I bubbasmithed one into a paratrooper knock off. Some time this century, I realized it fits in a tennis racket case with room to spare for extra magazines. Now I keep it in my truck and carry it when I go to silly 46.035 locations.

It works for a lot of 30.06 locations too.


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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#23

Post by chasfm11 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:28 pm

MeMelYup wrote:What I understand from listening to Charles is that doing away with most of 46.03/.035 will stop things like the Texas State Fair being off limits for LTC's because of someone's 51% sign being posted at the entry gate. A concert being off limits because a vendor has used that address for his license to sell beer, therefore the entire location is listed as 51%. The Ft Worth or Waco zoos being off limits to LTC because the managing company or a vendor has a license to sell alcohol at that location and uses that address in the license.

All we need to do is get most of 46.03 and 46.035 not applying to LTC.
There a a lot of places that would be affected. Lewisville has resorted to posting their whole downtown area as 51% for their "Western Days" festival. Bass Hall in Ft. Worth has the same thing you mentioned - the whole building is 51% because there is an alcohol vendor. The Meyerson in Dallas doesn't. I would love to go to hear more concerts and shows at Bass Hall but it isn't a place I want to go unarmed. I'd be happy not to have a glass of wine during intermission to be to carry. I have never done that when attending a concert anyway.

The Ft. Worth Zoo will likely keep coming up stupid excuses until they have to pay money. How they can be a child care facility AND have a liquor license is a testimony to a lack of common sense.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#24

Post by mr1337 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:51 pm

chasfm11 wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:What I understand from listening to Charles is that doing away with most of 46.03/.035 will stop things like the Texas State Fair being off limits for LTC's because of someone's 51% sign being posted at the entry gate. A concert being off limits because a vendor has used that address for his license to sell beer, therefore the entire location is listed as 51%. The Ft Worth or Waco zoos being off limits to LTC because the managing company or a vendor has a license to sell alcohol at that location and uses that address in the license.

All we need to do is get most of 46.03 and 46.035 not applying to LTC.
There a a lot of places that would be affected. Lewisville has resorted to posting their whole downtown area as 51% for their "Western Days" festival. Bass Hall in Ft. Worth has the same thing you mentioned - the whole building is 51% because there is an alcohol vendor. The Meyerson in Dallas doesn't. I would love to go to hear more concerts and shows at Bass Hall but it isn't a place I want to go unarmed. I'd be happy not to have a glass of wine during intermission to be to carry. I have never done that when attending a concert anyway.

The Ft. Worth Zoo will likely keep coming up stupid excuses until they have to pay money. How they can be a child care facility AND have a liquor license is a testimony to a lack of common sense.
In Austin, a few places come to mind as well. Namely, Moody Theatre and the Long Center for Performing Arts - both because of outsourcing food & beverage sales.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#25

Post by bigtek » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:40 pm

The Wall wrote:Well, the new law should take TABC out of the picture in determining what a bar is. A bar should be a place where 99% of income is from alcohol. :lol:
Minors should not be allowed in bars. That would help stop the current abuse.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#26

Post by TreyHouston » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

I have always wondered... who kills more people??? Drunk drivers or drunk LTC peeps? Most LTC people I know just leave their gun in the car when at a bar. I would assume that when they leave it is still there and there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of drunk LTC holders killing people on the street with their guns. If they carry inside, what would the difference be? Other than the obvious, not risking their firearm being stolen from their car....
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#27

Post by CJD » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:28 pm


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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#28

Post by oohrah » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:13 am

Srothstein said "One problem Texas has is that our business model for drinking is still based on 1935 economics and technology. We need to redo it and hotels, wineries, and beer pubs have really twisted the laws up."

Actually I think it's based on Baptist theology, :lol:

and the reason it's screwed up today is because the distributors control the game.
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Re: This is extra wishful...51% changes

#29

Post by Liberty » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:59 am

oohrah wrote:Srothstein said "One problem Texas has is that our business model for drinking is still based on 1935 economics and technology. We need to redo it and hotels, wineries, and beer pubs have really twisted the laws up."

Actually I think it's based on Baptist theology, :lol:

and the reason it's screwed up today is because the distributors control the game.
The whole concept of distributors is to keep money flowing into the political process.. It a state-sponsored monopoly designed to crush out independent entrepreneurs.
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