Concealed carry by school employees

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apvonkanel
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Concealed carry by school employees

#1

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:33 am

Is anyone aware of a proposed bill to allow concealed carry by school employees without having to get individual approval? Individual approval is dependent on the whims and views of of every person in the chain of command between the principal and superintendent, and also announces to many more people exactly who's carrying. A) me you the chain of command change at least once a school year (more frequently in many cases) and b) even those that aren't directly in the chain of command but still have significant impact on the teacher's career don't need to know. An anti-2A belief has nothing to do with a teacher's ability to teach (except maybe a social studies teacher).
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#2

Post by AF-Odin » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:45 am

What is the hate for Social Studies teachers. Not all are anti 2nd Amendment. As a matter of fact, one of my uncles spent a career teaching social Studies and was as Pro 2nd Amendment as you could find. My son has a PhD in history and spent three years teaching at the university level and is an avid shooter. I too spent a year teaching HS Social Studies and I think from my signature line, you will see where I stand. I agree that there are a LOT of antis in education, but there are many who are very pro, we are just not normally the vocal ones.

Now, as to your main premise, I agree with teachers and other employees being legally allowed to carry without having to inform everyone in the world about it. :txflag:
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#3

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:47 am

AF-Odin wrote:What is the hate for Social Studies teachers. Not all are anti 2nd Amendment. As a matter of fact, one of my uncles spent a career teaching social Studies and was as Pro 2nd Amendment as you could find. My son has a PhD in history and spent three years teaching at the university level and is an avid shooter. I too spent a year teaching HS Social Studies and I think from my signature line, you will see where I stand. I agree that there are a LOT of antis in education, but there are many who are very pro, we are just not normally the vocal ones.

Now, as to your main premise, I agree with teachers and other employees being legally allowed to carry without having to inform everyone in the world about it. :txflag:
I mean that if an administrator is anti-2A I can see how that view would be pertinent to a social studies teacher, as it is directly related to both historical and current events. They are the teachers most most blatantly affected by the political views of administration when it comes to curriculum. But language arts, math, science, and music have nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#4

Post by Jusme » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:25 am

I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#5

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:32 am

Jusme wrote:I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.
I'm hoping for a bill that would supersede the school board altogether. If an employee of the school district (not a contractor, but an actual employee in the district's payroll) has passed the ISD, TEA, and DPS checks to work there and carry a gun, it would allow that individual to carry concealed.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#6

Post by Odiferous » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:05 pm

Guns in schools is a hard sell. I think a good start would be to exempt LTC holders from the exceptions in 52.062 a 2.

It's already there plants & refineries--the language would only need to be restructured slighly to apply to the entire list.

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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#7

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:33 pm

Odiferous wrote:Guns in schools is a hard sell. I think a good start would be to exempt LTC holders from the exceptions in 52.062 a 2.

It's already there plants & refineries--the language would only need to be restructured slighly to apply to the entire list.
You know, I don't know what most districts' policy is regarding the parking lot. I know there have to be some out there that don't allow it, but mine clearly uses the Texas Penal Code definition of "premises" regarding its gun policy.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#8

Post by Jusme » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:40 pm

apvonkanel wrote:
Jusme wrote:I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.
I'm hoping for a bill that would supersede the school board altogether. If an employee of the school district (not a contractor, but an actual employee in the district's payroll) has passed the ISD, TEA, and DPS checks to work there and carry a gun, it would allow that individual to carry concealed.

You would never get such a bill passed, trying to bypass the school districts. It would have to include language to allow districts to "opt out" Or it wouldn't get the support in the Legislature it needs. But why limit it to teachers/school employees? I think that anyone with an LTC should be able to carry in the schools. That may have to be a first step, but schools are going to be the last bastion of resistance LTC holders will have to overcome, in the removal of prohibited places. I don't think there are enough legislators ready to take on that challenge yet. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#9

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:10 pm

Jusme wrote:
apvonkanel wrote:
Jusme wrote:I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.
I'm hoping for a bill that would supersede the school board altogether. If an employee of the school district (not a contractor, but an actual employee in the district's payroll) has passed the ISD, TEA, and DPS checks to work there and carry a gun, it would allow that individual to carry concealed.

You would never get such a bill passed, trying to bypass the school districts. It would have to include language to allow districts to "opt out" Or it wouldn't get the support in the Legislature it needs. But why limit it to teachers/school employees? I think that anyone with an LTC should be able to carry in the schools. That may have to be a first step, but schools are going to be the last bastion of resistance LTC holders will have to overcome, in the removal of prohibited places. I don't think there are enough legislators ready to take on that challenge yet. JMHO
I say only school employees because of the fact that many adults don't know how to act around kids, and I know for a fact this is problematic already. Let me paint a picture for you, only citing examples of known LTC holders at my campus. I know this because my position puts me all over the campus, interacting with most of the kids and parents that come up here.
A) A mom forgets to disarm before walking in the building. I stop her at the office (she's lucky it was me and I was just looking out for her), and quietly tell her "You're printing at your 4 o'clock". She loudly yells some profanity and runs out to her car. There are two students in the office, and while they didn't hear what I said, they certainly heard what she said.
B) A dad comes in reeking of marijuana, asking to pick up his kids early. I step away and call the officer from down the road. No way I'm letting the kids get in the car of someone obviously under the influence (I'm not a marijuana smoker myself, hold to a fairly libertarian view of it, but refuse to condone putting children at risk of an inebriated driver). Long story short, after the rest the cops informs me the guy had his LTC on him, pistol in the car.
C) A granddad comes in, pulling his motorcycle up to the doorway (literally the walkway, 5 feet from the door), get's his grandkid. No big deal so far, just a little annoying because it's in the way of kids going to recess. After he picks up his grandson, he re-arms and sits there and for about 2 minutes revving the engine for fun (my assumption is to impress the grandson, from observing the expressions on both).

What I'm saying here is that just because someone is legally able to carry a pistol doesn't mean I'm ready to jump on board with letting them carry one on my campus. Being legal doesn't mean decent and kid-friendly.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#10

Post by TreyHouston » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:41 pm

apvonkanel wrote:
Jusme wrote:
apvonkanel wrote:
Jusme wrote:I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.
I'm hoping for a bill that would supersede the school board altogether. If an employee of the school district (not a contractor, but an actual employee in the district's payroll) has passed the ISD, TEA, and DPS checks to work there and carry a gun, it would allow that individual to carry concealed.

You would never get such a bill passed, trying to bypass the school districts. It would have to include language to allow districts to "opt out" Or it wouldn't get the support in the Legislature it needs. But why limit it to teachers/school employees? I think that anyone with an LTC should be able to carry in the schools. That may have to be a first step, but schools are going to be the last bastion of resistance LTC holders will have to overcome, in the removal of prohibited places. I don't think there are enough legislators ready to take on that challenge yet. JMHO
I say only school employees because of the fact that many adults don't know how to act around kids, and I know for a fact this is problematic already. Let me paint a picture for you, only citing examples of known LTC holders at my campus. I know this because my position puts me all over the campus, interacting with most of the kids and parents that come up here.
A) A mom forgets to disarm before walking in the building. I stop her at the office (she's lucky it was me and I was just looking out for her), and quietly tell her "You're printing at your 4 o'clock". She loudly yells some profanity and runs out to her car. There are two students in the office, and while they didn't hear what I said, they certainly heard what she said.
B) A dad comes in reeking of marijuana, asking to pick up his kids early. I step away and call the officer from down the road. No way I'm letting the kids get in the car of someone obviously under the influence (I'm not a marijuana smoker myself, hold to a fairly libertarian view of it, but refuse to condone putting children at risk of an inebriated driver). Long story short, after the rest the cops informs me the guy had his LTC on him, pistol in the car.
C) A granddad comes in, pulling his motorcycle up to the doorway (literally the walkway, 5 feet from the door), get's his grandkid. No big deal so far, just a little annoying because it's in the way of kids going to recess. After he picks up his grandson, he re-arms and sits there and for about 2 minutes revving the engine for fun (my assumption is to impress the grandson, from observing the expressions on both).

What I'm saying here is that just because someone is legally able to carry a pistol doesn't mean I'm ready to jump on board with letting them carry one on my campus. Being legal doesn't mean decent and kid-friendly.
You do know that guns don't bite kids right?! I an appalled that you even alowed a LEO ARMED inside the premises when he was not responding to a active shooter!!! What would have happened if the pot head had attacked the LEO? The LEO might have fired and missed and the bullet go through all the walls and bricks striking a student outside and killing/injuring many along the way! :???:
I support teachers packing, even better if they are allowed to open carry as well! Let the students SEE that guns don't bite and randomly shoot people. They might even feel better knowing that they are safe as well
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:


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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#11

Post by TreyHouston » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:48 pm

Apvonkal- just to be 100% clear, thank you for going the extra mile to help us parents and kids! I honestly wish for more people like you. I also think a person in your position should be packing too, cause your going to probably be the first one to see bad news coming!
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#12

Post by Jusme » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:58 pm

While I have no doubt that all LTC holders are not 100% responsible 100% of the time, I seriously doubt you can claim the same for teachers or any other school employees.
The attitude of excluding, other LTC holders based on limited scenarios, is what the left wing try to do. Along with all of the ND, the propensity for having shootouts, at high noon, etc.
That is also the attitude they put forth when they say only LEO, are responsible enough to carry 24/7 and bypass security checkpoints at sporting events, courtrooms, and any other areas prohibited for LTC holders.
I understand that as a school employee, you belive that everyone who works in a school, constantly has the students best interest at heart, but take a look around you and ask yourself if you would feel comfortable with every employee there carrying a gun? It reeks of for me but not thee.JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#13

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:18 pm

TreyHouston wrote: You do know that guns don't bite kids right?! I an appalled that you even allowed a LEO ARMED inside the premises when he was not responding to a active shooter!!! What would have happened if the pot head had attacked the LEO? The LEO might have fired and missed and the bullet go through all the walls and bricks striking a student outside and killing/injuring many along the way! :???:
I support teachers packing, even better if they are allowed to open carry as well! Let the students SEE that guns don't bite and randomly shoot people. They might even feel better knowing that they are safe as well
The question isn't whether or not I believe bite (which obviously I wouldn't carry or want to carry if I I did), but if I believe any parent can be responsible around other people's children. The examples I gave (and countless others) are to point out that the answer is no, I know for a fact that many parents are reckless. Would you be okay with any parent with a driver's license driving a school bus? I certainly wouldn't. Dear Lord, every year there are at least 2-3 fender-benders in the parking lot during car-rider dismissal! There are a plethora of examples I can give you when it comes to things vetted teachers are allowed to do with a group of children that a parent walking in off the street wouldn't be allowed to do. It comes down to the fact that there is a world of difference between responsible enough for the general public vs. responsible enough for a school of 500-700 kids.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#14

Post by apvonkanel » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:31 pm

Jusme wrote:While I have no doubt that all LTC holders are not 100% responsible 100% of the time, I seriously doubt you can claim the same for teachers or any other school employees.
The attitude of excluding, other LTC holders based on limited scenarios, is what the left wing try to do. Along with all of the ND, the propensity for having shootouts, at high noon, etc.
That is also the attitude they put forth when they say only LEO, are responsible enough to carry 24/7 and bypass security checkpoints at sporting events, courtrooms, and any other areas prohibited for LTC holders.
I understand that as a school employee, you belive that everyone who works in a school, constantly has the students best interest at heart, but take a look around you and ask yourself if you would feel comfortable with every employee there carrying a gun? It reeks of for me but not thee.JMHO
"For me but not thee"? Not quite. It's "Do you understand and respect the situation you're entering". If the answer is no to either side of that (understand/respect), added to everything I stated above. No disrespect intended, but it's easy to armchair QB when it comes to public education. This is also why there are plenty of scenarios where I might not understand why someone requests me to disarm, but it might have nothing to do with their 2A view. I'm not allowed in the garage area of Discount Tire because as much for the fact that they can't guarantee I'll be responsible around their equipment or other people's cars as anything else.
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

#15

Post by Jusme » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:39 pm

There are also a plethora of examples of teachers and other "vetted" school employees who demonstrated very poor judgment, to be kind, and outright criminal behavior to name it properly. Again, if the state, due to current constraints, give their blessing to legal citizens, carrying firearms in public, the idea that they will suddenly become less law abiding at a a school, where their own children attend, is, in my opinion, ludicrous.
Every parent will not be able to obtain their LTC, but neither would every school employee. Your arguments sound like they come directly from the MDA playbook. I have no problem with teachers, or any other school employee, being able to carry. I understand that they are the first line of defense for our most precious possession, in the event of an attack. But the idea, that a parent is somehow less likeley, or responsible enough, to put themselves between children and evil, doesn't pass the smell test. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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