TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

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Papa_Tiger
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#46

Post by Papa_Tiger »

HB 1927 was referred to a special committee today - Senate Special Committee for Constitutional Issues that is headed by Senator Schwertner (my State Senator).

I contacted his office and left a message expressing my support as a constituent and hope that he will support the bill.
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#47

Post by Flightmare »

Papa_Tiger wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:36 am HB 1927 was referred to a special committee today - Senate Special Committee for Constitutional Issues that is headed by Senator Schwertner (my State Senator).

I contacted his office and left a message expressing my support as a constituent and hope that he will support the bill.
It's progress. Hopefully it continues. Keep encouraging the senators who are supporting this. If your senator has not announced their support, please politely ask them to. I assure you, they are feeling the pressure.
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#48

Post by Vol Texan »

I contacted Joan Huffman yesterday as well.

My big challenge with this bill is that while it leaves the LTC process in place, it provides no incentive for Texans to take the leap from unlicensed to licensed carry other than the already existing things (which few folks know about anyway), such as purchasing without background checks, exception from GFSZ, etc.

Here’s what I wish would be included:

Instead of extending 3006 and 3007 to cover unlicensed carry, I’d like to see that extension only apply to oral notification. If someone tells me ‘no guns here’, that should apply equally irrespective of what statute we’re carrying under.

But for the written notification aspects of 3006 and 3007, instead of EXTENDING this to unlicensed carry, I’d like to see it SHIFTED to unlicensed carry. This would mean that the signs have a force of law (Class C) for unlicensed carriers, but none for licensed carriers.

This does a few things: It assures that private property rights are sacrosanct in Texas: you tell me not to, and I can’t carry. But it saves us from the rampant expansion of signage that we should expect (exactly as it did when open carry passed). Remember the liberal politicians who printed signs of their own and went door-to-door passing them out for free to businesses? I do, and I expect it will happen even larger this time.

I asked Sen. Huffman to support this bill, and I suggested this amendment for her as well, because it provides a carrot (tangible benefits) to incentivize people to get their LTC, rather than the stick (Class A misdemeanor) they’ve used for decades. I have no idea if she’ll do either, but let’s hope that it happens at some level.
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#49

Post by Flightmare »

I would encourage folks to politely encourage each of the senators on this committee to pass it.

Chair:
Sen. Charles Schwertner (512) 463-0105
Vice Chair:
Sen. Brian Birdwell (512) 463-0122
Members:
Sen. Dawn Buckingham (512) 463-0124
Sen. Brandon Creighton (512) 463-0104
Sen. Bob Hall (512) 463-0102
Sen. Juan Hinojosa (512) 463-0120
Sen. Eddie Lucio, Jr. (512) 463-0127
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#50

Post by Papa_Tiger »

Vol Texan wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:31 am I contacted Joan Huffman yesterday as well.

My big challenge with this bill is that while it leaves the LTC process in place, it provides no incentive for Texans to take the leap from unlicensed to licensed carry other than the already existing things (which few folks know about anyway), such as purchasing without background checks, exception from GFSZ, etc.

Here’s what I wish would be included:

Instead of extending 3006 and 3007 to cover unlicensed carry, I’d like to see that extension only apply to oral notification. If someone tells me ‘no guns here’, that should apply equally irrespective of what statute we’re carrying under.

But for the written notification aspects of 3006 and 3007, instead of EXTENDING this to unlicensed carry, I’d like to see it SHIFTED to unlicensed carry. This would mean that the signs have a force of law (Class C) for unlicensed carriers, but none for licensed carriers.

This does a few things: It assures that private property rights are sacrosanct in Texas: you tell me not to, and I can’t carry. But it saves us from the rampant expansion of signage that we should expect (exactly as it did when open carry passed). Remember the liberal politicians who printed signs of their own and went door-to-door passing them out for free to businesses? I do, and I expect it will happen even larger this time.

I asked Sen. Huffman to support this bill, and I suggested this amendment for her as well, because it provides a carrot (tangible benefits) to incentivize people to get their LTC, rather than the stick (Class A misdemeanor) they’ve used for decades. I have no idea if she’ll do either, but let’s hope that it happens at some level.
In the current proposal, 30.06/7 do not extend to unlicensed carry. These still only apply ONLY to license holders. Oral and personal notification applies to everyone.

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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#51

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Papa_Tiger wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:59 am
Vol Texan wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:31 am I contacted Joan Huffman yesterday as well.

My big challenge with this bill is that while it leaves the LTC process in place, it provides no incentive for Texans to take the leap from unlicensed to licensed carry other than the already existing things (which few folks know about anyway), such as purchasing without background checks, exception from GFSZ, etc.

Here’s what I wish would be included:

Instead of extending 3006 and 3007 to cover unlicensed carry, I’d like to see that extension only apply to oral notification. If someone tells me ‘no guns here’, that should apply equally irrespective of what statute we’re carrying under.

But for the written notification aspects of 3006 and 3007, instead of EXTENDING this to unlicensed carry, I’d like to see it SHIFTED to unlicensed carry. This would mean that the signs have a force of law (Class C) for unlicensed carriers, but none for licensed carriers.

This does a few things: It assures that private property rights are sacrosanct in Texas: you tell me not to, and I can’t carry. But it saves us from the rampant expansion of signage that we should expect (exactly as it did when open carry passed). Remember the liberal politicians who printed signs of their own and went door-to-door passing them out for free to businesses? I do, and I expect it will happen even larger this time.

I asked Sen. Huffman to support this bill, and I suggested this amendment for her as well, because it provides a carrot (tangible benefits) to incentivize people to get their LTC, rather than the stick (Class A misdemeanor) they’ve used for decades. I have no idea if she’ll do either, but let’s hope that it happens at some level.
In the current proposal, 30.06/7 do not extend to unlicensed carry. These still only apply ONLY to license holders. Oral and personal notification applies to everyone.
I think I'm misunderstanding your post above. Are you saying that a 30.06 sign only applies to someone who is carrying concealed under the authority of their LTC? If so, couldn't that same person walk right by a 30.06 sign and carry under their constitutional carry rights?

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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#52

Post by Papa_Tiger »

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:43 pm
Papa_Tiger wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:59 am
Vol Texan wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:31 am I contacted Joan Huffman yesterday as well.

My big challenge with this bill is that while it leaves the LTC process in place, it provides no incentive for Texans to take the leap from unlicensed to licensed carry other than the already existing things (which few folks know about anyway), such as purchasing without background checks, exception from GFSZ, etc.

Here’s what I wish would be included:

Instead of extending 3006 and 3007 to cover unlicensed carry, I’d like to see that extension only apply to oral notification. If someone tells me ‘no guns here’, that should apply equally irrespective of what statute we’re carrying under.

But for the written notification aspects of 3006 and 3007, instead of EXTENDING this to unlicensed carry, I’d like to see it SHIFTED to unlicensed carry. This would mean that the signs have a force of law (Class C) for unlicensed carriers, but none for licensed carriers.

This does a few things: It assures that private property rights are sacrosanct in Texas: you tell me not to, and I can’t carry. But it saves us from the rampant expansion of signage that we should expect (exactly as it did when open carry passed). Remember the liberal politicians who printed signs of their own and went door-to-door passing them out for free to businesses? I do, and I expect it will happen even larger this time.

I asked Sen. Huffman to support this bill, and I suggested this amendment for her as well, because it provides a carrot (tangible benefits) to incentivize people to get their LTC, rather than the stick (Class A misdemeanor) they’ve used for decades. I have no idea if she’ll do either, but let’s hope that it happens at some level.
In the current proposal, 30.06/7 do not extend to unlicensed carry. These still only apply ONLY to license holders. Oral and personal notification applies to everyone.
I think I'm misunderstanding your post above. Are you saying that a 30.06 sign only applies to someone who is carrying concealed under the authority of their LTC? If so, couldn't that same person walk right by a 30.06 sign and carry under their constitutional carry rights?
Correct. However, the signage for 30.05 criminal trespass is not defined other than being "a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;". Read the language of 30.06/7 in HB 1927 - it was not changed, so they still only apply to banning licensed carry.

Per my reading of the bill, anyone carrying a weapon past a "no weapons allowed" sign or other sign prohibiting guns (gun buster sign) would be guilty of Class C misdemeanor criminal trespass under TPC 30.05. TPC 30.05 does not apply to persons carrying an LTC per TPC 46.15, so LTC holders can continue to ignore anything except 30.06/7 signs. Constitutional carriers would have to be aware of ANY "weapons prohibited" or gun buster logo, even those frequently placed as a watermark on some of the most common 30.06/7 signs.

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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#53

Post by Tex1961 »

Don't forget the TABC Blue which pretty much covers every restaurant and convince store in Texas.

The blue sign warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony. This sign is displayed: On premises where a holder of a concealed handgun license may legally possess a concealed handgun.

So while a LTC holder can go right past this sign anyone unlicensed cannot....
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#54

Post by ELB »

Texas ‘constitutional carry’ proposal for handguns has new momentum in state Senate (dallasnews.com)

Article states this brand new Special Committee for Constitutional Issues is "stacked" with Republicans, indicates ones that support con carry.

"Law enforcement and some gun instructors oppose". Doesn't mention only 55 out close to 2000 instructors.

Says Abbott and Patrick are avoiding saying whether they support the bill.

Committee Chair Schwertner filed his own con carry bill yesterday, which went to the Administration Committee that he chairs. I don't this this is a plus, this just adds churn, especially since it is different than HB1927.
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#55

Post by Papa_Tiger »

Tex1961 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:47 pm Don't forget the TABC Blue which pretty much covers every restaurant and convince store in Texas.

The blue sign warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony. This sign is displayed: On premises where a holder of a concealed handgun license may legally possess a concealed handgun.

So while a LTC holder can go right past this sign anyone unlicensed cannot....
Under HB 1927 the sections related to the TABC Blue sign are repealed.
HB 1927 Section 26 wrote: The following provisions are repealed:
(1)Section 11.041, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2)Section 11.61(e), Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(3)Section 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(4)Section 61.71(f),Alcoholic Beverage Code;
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#56

Post by ELB »

One of the members at Texas Gun Talks says he personally called every Texas senator's office, and everyone of them said they support HB 1927 except


Sen Paul Bettencourt. 512-463-0107

Sen Joan Huffman. 512-463-0117

Sen Ken Seliger. 512-463-0131

who apparently are "on the fence."

https://texasguntalk.com/threads/texas- ... st-2314458
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#57

Post by oohrah »

I do NOT support Constitutional carry. There are no bars to carrying a handgun already. Texas is a "shall issue" state. Any law-abiding citizen without a criminal record can buy and carry a handgun if they demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the law. They cannot be denied. Rights sustained.

I believe with rights comes responsibility. I also believe carrying a gun in public without training or knowledge of the law is irresponsible. I know I will get a lot of pushback on this, so don't expect me to respond to your arguments. Just wanted you to know that there are responsible gun owners out there who do not support this.
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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#58

Post by K.Mooneyham »

oohrah wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:39 am I do NOT support Constitutional carry. There are no bars to carrying a handgun already. Texas is a "shall issue" state. Any law-abiding citizen without a criminal record can buy and carry a handgun if they demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the law. They cannot be denied. Rights sustained.

I believe with rights comes responsibility. I also believe carrying a gun in public without training or knowledge of the law is irresponsible. I know I will get a lot of pushback on this, so don't expect me to respond to your arguments. Just wanted you to know that there are responsible gun owners out there who do not support this.
Per your statement, I don't expect a response and that's okay. However, I see the passage of Constitutional Carry as quite important. It would tell antis that Texas is NOT going to bow down to gun control, or simply stay quiet, that Texas will continue to be a pro-2A state in defiance of the wishes of antis, and the current Federal administration. We don't want Texas to be "East California", and whatever pro-2A legislation that can be pushed forward, well that sends a strong message, IMHO.

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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#59

Post by EP45 »

oohrah wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:39 am I do NOT support Constitutional carry. There are no bars to carrying a handgun already. Texas is a "shall issue" state. Any law-abiding citizen without a criminal record can buy and carry a handgun if they demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the law. They cannot be denied. Rights sustained.

I believe with rights comes responsibility. I also believe carrying a gun in public without training or knowledge of the law is irresponsible. I know I will get a lot of pushback on this, so don't expect me to respond to your arguments. Just wanted you to know that there are responsible gun owners out there who do not support this.
I would actually like some discussion on this position. How much training or knowledge? We are basically going to give the Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms back to the Government to determine if citizens have met the requisite amount of training and knowledge. By this logic you should also oppose lessening of training requirements, ideally oppose lessening cost of licensing. You should oppose anything that makes it easier to get a license.

Are my 3rd Amendment Rights, forcing me to provide lodging to soldiers in my homes during peacetime without my consent nullified if I lack knowledge or any legal training or training in Constitutional law. This applies to other Constitutional rights as well.

May not be the proper thread, but I respectfully ask.

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Re: TX: Lt Gov Patrick says not enough Senate votes to pass Con Carry

#60

Post by crazy2medic »

Other States have Constitutional Carry, but somehow the Citizen of Texas are not up to the task? Why are they smarter than Texans?
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