HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

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Papa_Tiger
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#241

Post by Papa_Tiger »

Ruark wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:11 pm Jeezaloo.... starting to sound like I could carry in more places if I canceled my LTC and just carried under 30.05.
I don't think so. The off-limits locations for LTC holders are pretty much exactly the same as they were before (we gain government meetings covered by the open meetings act). You only really need to be aware of the 30.06/7 signs that you have grown accustomed to looking for as far as off limits places go. 30.05 does not apply to you if you have an LTC (defense to prosecution). If you see a 46.03 sign, you would need to know whether it applies to you or not. If you have an LTC, they do not apply in Government meetings, hospitals, nursing homes or amusement parks (the same places that we could be barred from carry only if they posted 30.06/7 previously).

You CANNOT legally carry on institutes of higher education without an LTC and given the way that certain campuses cut through populated areas, I would not want to accidentally carry on one without a license.

Absolutely up to the individual, but there is less risk and less you have to be aware of if you have an LTC than if you don't.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#242

Post by ScottDLS »

Papa_Tiger wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:26 pm
Ruark wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:11 pm Jeezaloo.... starting to sound like I could carry in more places if I canceled my LTC and just carried under 30.05.
I don't think so. The off-limits locations for LTC holders are pretty much exactly the same as they were before (we gain government meetings covered by the open meetings act). You only really need to be aware of the 30.06/7 signs that you have grown accustomed to looking for as far as off limits places go. 30.05 does not apply to you if you have an LTC (defense to prosecution). If you see a 46.03 sign, you would need to know whether it applies to you or not. If you have an LTC, they do not apply in Government meetings, hospitals, nursing homes or amusement parks (the same places that we could be barred from carry only if they posted 30.06/7 previously).

You CANNOT legally carry on institutes of higher education without an LTC and given the way that certain campuses cut through populated areas, I would not want to accidentally carry on one without a license.

Absolutely up to the individual, but there is less risk and less you have to be aware of if you have an LTC than if you don't.
I would also argue (as I did above) that unless a business with a 30.06/7 ALSO posts a 30.05, that a LTC holder could still carry past the 30.06/7 signs. The argument would be...in the absence of a 30.05 sign a LTC holder doesn't need the authority of their LTC to carry. Therefore the 30.06/7 signs, which only apply to carrying under the authority of LTC, don't apply. Example...peace officer who happens to also have a LTC.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#243

Post by TxRVer »

The Annoyed Man wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:57 am
This is great news. I’ve been wanting forever to ankle-carry a j-frame BUG while wearing cargo shorts. :lol:
Be sure to post pictures, when you do.
Charlie
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#244

Post by RoyGBiv »

Papa_Tiger wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:25 am Gun Signs with force of law under HB 1927:

30.05
Sign Description:
Includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following:
"Pursuant to Section 30. 05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm"
In both English and Spanish in contrasting block letters at least 1 inch in height

How can it be posted:
At each entrance to the property, in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Who can post:
Any private business or non-governmental entity not covered by TPC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED

Who does it apply to:
All persons carrying a firearm (this includes long guns as well as handguns)

Defense to prosecution provided to:
LTC holders under TPC 30.05(f) that states:
It is a defense to prosecution under this sect ion that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
( i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a holster.
Offense for violating:
Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200
Class A misdemeanor if you receive notice and fail to depart

30.06
Sign Description:
Language identical to the following:
"Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"
In both English and Spanish in contrasting colors at least 1 inch in height

How can it be posted:
On a property in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public - applies to the whole property, not just a premises (building or portion of a building)

Who can post:
Any private business, non-governmental entity, and governmental entity listed in TPC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
There are certain exceptions to the application of TPC 46.03 for license holders - namely governmental meetings subject to the open meetings act.
Government entities/buildings/locations that are not listed in TPC 46.03 can post, but the law cannot be applied to a license holder.

Who does it apply to:
Persons licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code (handgun licensing law)

Defense to prosecution provided to:
Condo residents or guests, lessees of residential housing, or a lessee of a manufactured home going directly to or from a vehicle and housing unit
Volunteer emergency services personnel
License holders personally given oral notice who promptly depart the property

Who does it NOT apply to:
Unlicensed individuals

Offense for violating:
Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200
Class A misdemeanor if you receive notice and fail to depart

30.07
Sign Description:
Language identical to the following:
"Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly"
In both English and Spanish in contrasting colors at least 1 inch in height

How can it be posted:
Displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.

Who can post:
Any private business, non-governmental entity, and governmental entity listed in TPC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
There are certain exceptions to the application of TPC 46.03 for license holders - namely governmental meetings subject to the open meetings act.
Government entities/buildings/locations that are not listed in TPC 46.03 can post, but the law cannot be applied to a license holder.

Who does it apply to:
Persons licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code (handgun licensing law)

Defense to prosecution provided to:
Condo residents or guests, lessees of residential housing, or a lessee of a manufactured home going directly to or from a vehicle and housing unit
Volunteer emergency services personnel
License holders personally given oral notice who promptly depart the property

Offense for violating:
Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200
Class A misdemeanor if you receive notice and fail to depart

46.03
Sign Description:
Language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following:
"Pursuant to Section 46.03, Penal Code (places weapons prohibited), a person may not carry a firearm or other weapon on this property"
In both English and Spanish in contrasting colors with block letters at least 1 inch in height

Where can it be posted:
On a property in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public - applies to the whole property, not just a premises (building or portion of a building)

Who can post:
Locations listed in TPC 46.03 including:
  • premises of a school or the grounds where a school sponsored activity is taking place (this includes colleges - no constitutional carry on university property)
  • premises of a polling place while voting is in progress
  • premises of a court or offices used by the court
  • premises of a racetrack
  • secured area of an airport
  • within 1000 ft. of a place of execution on the date of the execution
  • 51% locations
  • Premises of high school, collegiate, or professional sporting events while the event is taking place unless the weapon is used in the event
  • Premises of a correctional facility
  • Premises of a civil commitment facility
  • Hospitals and nursing homes
  • Certain state-run mental hospitals
  • Amusement parks
  • Government meetings subject to the open meetings act
Who does it apply to:
All persons carrying a firearm (this includes long guns as well as handguns)

Exceptions
Persons licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code (handgun licensing law) may carry on public institutions of higher education and government meetings subject to the open meetings act
Collegiate sporting events, hospitals, nursing homes, and amusement parks must be posted with 30.06/7 to exclude persons licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code (handgun licensing law)
51% locations must be properly posted to exclude anyone carrying a weapon

Defense to prosecution provided to:
Persons provided notice by the owner of the property, or from another person with apparent authority to act for the owner that carrying a firearm or other weapon on the premises or other property, as applicable, was prohibited; and promptly departed from the premises or other property.

This does not apply if the location was properly posted with the signs or the person knew that carrying a firearm or other weapon on the premises or other property was prohibited.

Persons possessing a firearm in a secured area of an airport licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code (handgun licensing law) who are notified and immediately exit the checkpoint after completing the required screening

Offense for violating:
Third degree felony or Class A misdemeanor depending on which location the firearm was carried on.
Thanks for this Papa_Tiger. :tiphat:
I would add one item....
Under 46.035 there is a defense to prosecution for Volunteer emergency services personnel who are actively engaged in an emergency activity.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code ... 6-035.html
(m) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor is volunteer emergency services personnel engaged in providing emergency services.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#245

Post by Papa_Tiger »

RoyGBiv wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 2:17 pm Thanks for this Papa_Tiger. :tiphat:
I would add one item....
Under 46.035 there is a defense to prosecution for Volunteer emergency services personnel who are actively engaged in an emergency activity.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code ... 6-035.html
(m) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor is volunteer emergency services personnel engaged in providing emergency services.
Under HB 1927 46.035 goes away and any text that they are keeping is rolled into 46.03.
HB 1927 Conference Committee Report wrote: SECTION 26. The following provisions are repealed:
( 10) Section 46. 035, Penal Code.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#246

Post by RoyGBiv »

Papa_Tiger wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:09 pm
RoyGBiv wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 2:17 pm Thanks for this Papa_Tiger. :tiphat:
I would add one item....
Under 46.035 there is a defense to prosecution for Volunteer emergency services personnel who are actively engaged in an emergency activity.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code ... 6-035.html
(m) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor is volunteer emergency services personnel engaged in providing emergency services.
Under HB 1927 46.035 goes away and any text that they are keeping is rolled into 46.03.
HB 1927 Conference Committee Report wrote: SECTION 26. The following provisions are repealed:
( 10) Section 46. 035, Penal Code.
Ahhh.... Missed that. That's definitely a negative for me. Although, carrying in an emergency shelter during an emergency appears to be ok.

I had an issue a while back where I was on volunteer duty during an emergency and the CP was set up inside a middle school. Was nice to have the 46.035 defense to prosecution that now seems to be gone. :roll:

Thanks again for the clarification.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#247

Post by TrueFlog »

If I'm reading this correctly, 30.06 and 30.07 signs do not apply to unlicensed carry. Is that right? That means that unlicensed Texas will be able to carry in tens of thousands of locations that are currently off-limits to license holders due to 30.06 and 30.07 signs. That seems kind of backwards...
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#248

Post by ScottDLS »

TrueFlog wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:54 pm If I'm reading this correctly, 30.06 and 30.07 signs do not apply to unlicensed carry. Is that right? That means that unlicensed Texas will be able to carry in tens of thousands of locations that are currently off-limits to license holders due to 30.06 and 30.07 signs. That seems kind of backwards...
I mentioned above that 30.06/30.07 only apply to carry "under the authority of your LTC". If a location (after 9/1) doesn't post a 30.05, but for some reason only a 30.06/7 then you could carry past the signs just like an unlicensed carrier. Reason being you don't need the authority of your LTC to carry, so therefore you're not (carrying under its authority). If this were not the case then currently, a peace officer who happened to have a LTC couldn't carry past a sign either. If one was not convinced by that, one could leave their LTC in the car, as technically you can't carry (under LTC authority) if you are not also carrying the LTC itself.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#249

Post by ELB »

The Activities for HB 1927 say the Senate has adopted the conference committee report and a record vote was held. It doesn't give the numbers of yeas and nays, but it looks like the same version of 1927 has been passed by both chambers.
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... 7#vote1105

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Last edited by ELB on Mon May 24, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#250

Post by RoyGBiv »

ELB wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:25 pm The Activities for HB 1927 say the Senate has adopted the conference committee report and a record vote was held. It doesn't give the numbers of yeas and nays, but it looks like the same version of 1927 has been passed by both chambers.
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... 7#vote1105
Awesome :patriot:
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#251

Post by jmra »

RoyGBiv wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:30 pm
ELB wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:25 pm The Activities for HB 1927 say the Senate has adopted the conference committee report and a record vote was held. It doesn't give the numbers of yeas and nays, but it looks like the same version of 1927 has been passed by both chambers.
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... 7#vote1105
Awesome :patriot:
Yep, just received an email from TSRA that the bill is headed to the gov’s desk.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#252

Post by The Annoyed Man »

ScottDLS wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:04 pm
TrueFlog wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:54 pm If I'm reading this correctly, 30.06 and 30.07 signs do not apply to unlicensed carry. Is that right? That means that unlicensed Texas will be able to carry in tens of thousands of locations that are currently off-limits to license holders due to 30.06 and 30.07 signs. That seems kind of backwards...
I mentioned above that 30.06/30.07 only apply to carry "under the authority of your LTC". If a location (after 9/1) doesn't post a 30.05, but for some reason only a 30.06/7 then you could carry past the signs just like an unlicensed carrier. Reason being you don't need the authority of your LTC to carry, so therefore you're not (carrying under its authority). If this were not the case then currently, a peace officer who happened to have a LTC couldn't carry past a sign either. If one was not convinced by that, one could leave their LTC in the car, as technically you can't carry (under LTC authority) if you are not also carrying the LTC itself.
So, please correct me if I’m wrong…..I just want to make sure I understand the "new" 30.05.

1. Do I understand correctly that 30.05 ONLY applies to unlicensed carry, while 30.06 & 30.07 will continue to apply only to licensed carry?

2. Do I also understand correctly that absent a 30.05 sign, a licensed person can still carry past a 30.06 or 30.07 sign under the authority of Constitutional Carry?

3. Am I asking the right questions?
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#253

Post by Flightmare »

ELB wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:25 pm The Activities for HB 1927 say the Senate has adopted the conference committee report and a record vote was held. It doesn't give the numbers of yeas and nays, but it looks like the same version of 1927 has been passed by both chambers.
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... 7#vote1105

:txflag:
17 Yeas, 13 Nays.
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#254

Post by Vol Texan »

It appears to have passed completely!
Now on to the governor’s desk.

https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/BillStages.aspx?LegSess=87R&Bill=HB1927
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Re: HB 1927 on the Senate floor now

#255

Post by TrueFlog »

ScottDLS wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:04 pm
TrueFlog wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:54 pm If I'm reading this correctly, 30.06 and 30.07 signs do not apply to unlicensed carry. Is that right? That means that unlicensed Texas will be able to carry in tens of thousands of locations that are currently off-limits to license holders due to 30.06 and 30.07 signs. That seems kind of backwards...
I mentioned above that 30.06/30.07 only apply to carry "under the authority of your LTC". If a location (after 9/1) doesn't post a 30.05, but for some reason only a 30.06/7 then you could carry past the signs just like an unlicensed carrier. Reason being you don't need the authority of your LTC to carry, so therefore you're not (carrying under its authority). If this were not the case then currently, a peace officer who happened to have a LTC couldn't carry past a sign either. If one was not convinced by that, one could leave their LTC in the car, as technically you can't carry (under LTC authority) if you are not also carrying the LTC itself.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I hope that you're correct. However, I'm hesitant to take legal advice from a stranger on the Internet. Has this concept of when someone is or not carrying "under the authority of their LTC" been discussed on this board before? I'd be curious to see what opinions others have offered and whether there's any broad consensus on this idea.
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