Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

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gtolbert09
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Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#1

Post by gtolbert09 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:13 am

[url]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/beto-orour ... ag=CNM-00-[\url]

"In Arkansas, I listened to gun owners and sellers — and appreciated hearing their perspectives," the Texas Democrat posted on social media. "But as the plan we released yesterday says, if I'm president, you wouldn't be able to buy weapons of war for $395. You wouldn't be able to buy them at all."
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#2

Post by MaduroBU » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am

The gun seller said he would support a requirement that gun-show sellers like him get a federal firearms license.
What does he mean "would support a requirement"? Does he mean that he would begin obeying the current laws if a new one were passed? If the ATF doesn't care now, why would they suddenly care in the future?


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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#3

Post by philip964 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:25 am

MaduroBU wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am
The gun seller said he would support a requirement that gun-show sellers like him get a federal firearms license.
What does he mean "would support a requirement"? Does he mean that he would begin obeying the current laws if a new one were passed? If the ATF doesn't care now, why would they suddenly care in the future?
I was confused, sellers said he had tables at the gun show.
Sounded like he was a gun dealer. He didn’t do background checks.

Am I missing something?

Or do Hillary rules still apply in Arkansas?

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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#4

Post by jmorris » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:13 am

philip964 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:25 am
MaduroBU wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am
The gun seller said he would support a requirement that gun-show sellers like him get a federal firearms license.
What does he mean "would support a requirement"? Does he mean that he would begin obeying the current laws if a new one were passed? If the ATF doesn't care now, why would they suddenly care in the future?
I was confused, sellers said he had tables at the gun show.
Sounded like he was a gun dealer. He didn’t do background checks.

Am I missing something?

Or do Hillary rules still apply in Arkansas?

If I understand the law correctly, if you as an individual have a few firearms you wanted to sell you could rent a table or two at a gun show at which to offer them. Not acting as a dealer, no FFL or NICS check required. If you do this often or have a lot of firearms at your tables, now you are crossing over into dealer territory. How often, how many? Only the BATF knows! (Cue theme music)
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#5

Post by Beiruty » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:17 am

jmorris wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:13 am
philip964 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:25 am
MaduroBU wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am
The gun seller said he would support a requirement that gun-show sellers like him get a federal firearms license.
What does he mean "would support a requirement"? Does he mean that he would begin obeying the current laws if a new one were passed? If the ATF doesn't care now, why would they suddenly care in the future?
I was confused, sellers said he had tables at the gun show.
Sounded like he was a gun dealer. He didn’t do background checks.

Am I missing something?

Or do Hillary rules still apply in Arkansas?

If I understand the law correctly, if you as an individual have a few firearms you wanted to sell you could rent a table or two at a gun show at which to offer them. Not acting as a dealer, no FFL or NICS check required. If you do this often or have a lot of firearms at your tables, now you are crossing over into dealer territory. How often, how many? Only the BATF knows! (Cue theme music)
There is a reasonable standard, if you make a living from selling guns, you are a dealer. If you sell to reduce your collection, you are not a dealer.
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#6

Post by Grayling813 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:26 am

What I don't understand is why anyone who loves freedom, liberty and firearms would even talk to a gun grabbing socialist like Robert O'Rourke, much less go "on the record" with remarks that advances the agenda of currently polling less than 3% nationally presidential candidate O'Rourke. :banghead:
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#7

Post by MaduroBU » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:18 am

The in the business of selling guns standard is reasonable, except that gun shows all have an ATF presence for running NICS checks. I'm not a big participant in gun shows, but my understanding is that selling off of your table with no NICS check in Texas essentially does not happen.

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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#8

Post by KC5AV » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:27 am

Grayling813 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:26 am
What I don't understand is why anyone who loves freedom, liberty and firearms would even talk to a gun grabbing socialist like Robert O'Rourke, much less go "on the record" with remarks that advances the agenda of currently polling less than 3% nationally presidential candidate O'Rourke. :banghead:
Considering that we’re talking about an article about a politician, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that this ‘gun seller’ doesn’t really exist.
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#9

Post by Grayling813 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:02 pm

KC5AV wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:27 am
Grayling813 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:26 am
What I don't understand is why anyone who loves freedom, liberty and firearms would even talk to a gun grabbing socialist like Robert O'Rourke, much less go "on the record" with remarks that advances the agenda of currently polling less than 3% nationally presidential candidate O'Rourke. :banghead:
Considering that we’re talking about an article about a politician, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that this ‘gun seller’ doesn’t really exist.
Well, yes, the possibility that Robert made up the whole thing is always a consideration.
“We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” -Archilochus, C. 650 BC


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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#10

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:07 pm

MaduroBU wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:18 am
The in the business of selling guns standard is reasonable, except that gun shows all have an ATF presence for running NICS checks. I'm not a big participant in gun shows, but my understanding is that selling off of your table with no NICS check in Texas essentially does not happen.
If you are in the business of selling forearms, then presumably you also file a schedule C and deduct regular and ordinary expenses for income tax purposes. I'd think that anyone who doesn't avail themselves of these tax advantages is not really "in the business" of selling guns. That would definitely be one indicator at least.

And I wonder whether "Beto" realizes that sticks, knives, etc., have all been used as "weapons of war" at one time or another. Does he want to ban those as well? More importantly, does he even understand that the 2nd Amendment is in place to ensure that the populace will have the means to carry out their obligation to overthrow a tyrannical government? How exactly can that happen if the populace has no access to anything that could be used as a "weapon of war"?
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#11

Post by TexasFlash » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:26 pm

MaduroBU wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:18 am
The in the business of selling guns standard is reasonable, except that gun shows all have an ATF presence for running NICS checks. I'm not a big participant in gun shows, but my understanding is that selling off of your table with no NICS check in Texas essentially does not happen.
Maybe I've missed it, but I never saw ATF/NICS booth at any gun show. I have bought guns from both private individuals at gun shows w/o 4473/NICS (legal, so far) and from dealers who did run 4473/NICS checks as required by law.

If I choose to sell any item I own, whether it be a car, tv, tools, guns, etc; Why should the government be involved?

:txflag:
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#12

Post by MaduroBU » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:17 pm

I'm not arguing that private sales should undergo checks, just that we need a real and consistent definition of "in the business". The only guns that I've given away or sold were to people that I know, and this forum maintains a strong ethic of "CHL or Texas DL" for FTF sales. I dont really care about background checks, but I do care that universal bavkground checks is just a fake word for gun registration (and thereafter confiscation).

My belief is that the NICS should be public and searcheable, and that knowingly selling a gun to someone on that list should be a crime that gets prosecuted. That solves the issue for everyone while eliminating the bureaucracy that keeps letting wackos through anyway.

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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#13

Post by Pawpaw » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:21 pm

Grayling813 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:02 pm
KC5AV wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:27 am
Grayling813 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:26 am
What I don't understand is why anyone who loves freedom, liberty and firearms would even talk to a gun grabbing socialist like Robert O'Rourke, much less go "on the record" with remarks that advances the agenda of currently polling less than 3% nationally presidential candidate O'Rourke. :banghead:
Considering that we’re talking about an article about a politician, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that this ‘gun seller’ doesn’t really exist.
Well, yes, the possibility that Robert made up the whole thing is always a consideration.
I don't believe he would do that... unless he was by himself or with someone.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#14

Post by Beiruty » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:26 pm

He fessed up he wants to ban all semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines
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Re: Beto visits gun show in Little Rock.

#15

Post by Scott Farkus » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:19 pm

MaduroBU wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:18 am
The in the business of selling guns standard is reasonable, except that gun shows all have an ATF presence for running NICS checks. I'm not a big participant in gun shows, but my understanding is that selling off of your table with no NICS check in Texas essentially does not happen.


That is not correct. Every gun show I've been to has had a mixture of private sellers and licensed dealers and I've never seen or heard of a private seller conducting an NICS check. I've also never seen the ATF running NICS checks at any show, I have no idea where that comes from. The licensed dealers are all set up to run the checks, perhaps that's what you meant?

Now, private sellers could of course go to one of those licensed dealers and, for a fee, ask him or her to run a check but again, I've never seen it happen. I'm not sure who's telling you otherwise.

In fairness, there aren't usually that many private seller tables and they tend not to have a whole lot of guns offered for sale. Maybe 10% of the guns at a typical show are at private tables and that's being generous. But no, they don't run NICS checks on them, nor is it required, nor should it be.

The question of what constitutes a dealer or "in the business of selling guns" is a different discussion.

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