HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

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RoyGBiv
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#16

Post by RoyGBiv » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:03 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:55 pm
A SCOTUS case from the Roosevelt era upheld a conviction of a farmer for growing wheat to feed his family and violating federal wage and price control laws. The Court held that the Commerce Clause was triggered even though the farmer's wheat had not traveled in interstate commerce. Had he not grown his own wheat he would have had to buy food. This impacted interstate commerce.

I know, the case sucked!
Chas.
The scariest thing about Wickard v Filburn was that it was a UNANIMOUS decision. :shock:
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#17

Post by Gator Guy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:02 am

RoyGBiv wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:03 am
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:55 pm
A SCOTUS case from the Roosevelt era upheld a conviction of a farmer for growing wheat to feed his family and violating federal wage and price control laws. The Court held that the Commerce Clause was triggered even though the farmer's wheat had not traveled in interstate commerce. Had he not grown his own wheat he would have had to buy food. This impacted interstate commerce.

I know, the case sucked!
Chas.
The scariest thing about Wickard v Filburn was that it was a UNANIMOUS decision. :shock:
It goes so clearly against the actual words in the constitution. I have to wonder what threats or other duress were used to get a unanimous decision. I also have to wonder if the Kavanaugh confirmation means there are finally enough SCOTUS justices who have read, understand, and respect the constitution to overturn it.
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned."

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spectre
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#18

Post by spectre » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:12 pm

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#19

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:54 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:55 pm
A SCOTUS case from the Roosevelt era upheld a conviction of a farmer for growing wheat to feed his family and violating federal wage and price control laws. The Court held that the Commerce Clause was triggered even though the farmer's wheat had not traveled in interstate commerce. Had he not grown his own wheat he would have had to buy food. This impacted interstate commerce.

I know, the case sucked!
Chas.
Gosh, I had forgotten all about that case. No wonder Pelosi/Obama had no problem creating a federally mandated stream of commerce in health insurance, and then requiring citizens to take part in it or face penalties.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#20

Post by buzzkill » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:18 pm
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Te ... Bill=HB349

Text:
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... 00349I.htm

Does this mean that shoelaces, rubber bands, belt loops and other daily use items will be illegal to sell or possess in the State of Texas?

This one is going nowhere fast.
But will Trump stump for Blanco in 2020?


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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#21

Post by crazy2medic » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:57 pm

Where does Constitutional law on Ex Post Facto weigh against federal banning of bump stocks?
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#22

Post by srothstein » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:30 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:57 pm
Where does Constitutional law on Ex Post Facto weigh against federal banning of bump stocks?
It would not matter. Ex post facto makes you guilty of things you already have done. This law would only make you guilty if you kept the illegal item past the deadline.

A better question would be if it would constitute a taking under the Fifth Amendment requiring the government to pay you fair market value for it. I think it would.
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spectre
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#23

Post by spectre » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:38 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:57 pm
Where does Constitutional law on Ex Post Facto weigh against federal banning of bump stocks?
There is a common misconception the ex post facto prohibition requires a new law to include a grandfather clause. No. What it means is they are prohibited from making a law today that criminalizes acts that happened before the law existed.

When Texas raised the drinking age to 21, it made it illegal for a twenty year old to possess the bottle of Wild Turkey on 9/1 that they could legally purchase and possess on 8/31 of that year. No grandfather clause.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#24

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:59 pm

srothstein wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:30 pm
A better question would be if it would constitute a taking under the Fifth Amendment requiring the government to pay you fair market value for it. I think it would.
I predict that is what will end up being decided by SCOTUS - not whether or not gov’t has the authority to ban/control a certain type of firearm, that’s already been settled (incorrectly in my opinion) - but whether or not gov’t can take property that WAS legally purchased in good faith, without compensation for the value of the property taken.
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#25

Post by Zoo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:42 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:59 pm
srothstein wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:30 pm
A better question would be if it would constitute a taking under the Fifth Amendment requiring the government to pay you fair market value for it. I think it would.
I predict that is what will end up being decided by SCOTUS - not whether or not gov’t has the authority to ban/control a certain type of firearm, that’s already been settled (incorrectly in my opinion) - but whether or not gov’t can take property that WAS legally purchased in good faith, without compensation for the value of the property taken.
Unless the government is taking the bump stocks and issuing them to the police and military, how is it a taking requiring compensation under the Fifth Amendment?

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation
When the government uses eminent domain to take private land to build roads, et cetera, that requires just compensation to the owner for the private property taken for public use. However, if the government bans something, that's different than taking it for public use.

If my car fails the emission test and Texas refuses to renew the registration, should the State of Texas be required to pay compensation?
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:49 pm

Zoo wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:42 pm
If my car fails the emission test and Texas refuses to renew the registration, should the State of Texas be required to pay compensation?
No, but if they do that, they are not requiring you to either destroy or turn in the vehicle. You continue to own and possess it. You just can't drive it. And, you can remedy the situation by paying for whatever needs doing to pass the emissions test, and then get the vehicle registered and begin driving it again. If modifications are required, it is still a vehicle when you’re done. Apple to oranges, my man. Under the proposed rule:
  1. You don’t get to retain ownership of the stock.
  2. You must either turn it in or destroy it.
  3. You can’t register it.
  4. You can’t modify it to bring it into compliance with the law in any way that will keep it a bumpstock.
  5. Ergo, you are being deprived of a legally purchased bumpstock, without compensation or relief under due process.
Like I said, Apples to oranges.

When the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act were passed, individual ownership of spirits was not illegalized. You couldn’t traffic in spirits. You couldn’t make more for commercial sale. But you COULD make small amounts for personal consumption....200 gallons/year of beer or wine, IIRC. You could buy booze from drugstores with a doctor’s prescription. In fact, a prominent gentlemen’s club in NYC set about purchasing a 5 year supply of booze for its wealthy members before the act went into effect, figuring that a 5 year supply would get them through to repeal. As long as the club had their supply, its members could drink as much as they wanted because they weren’t paying for it directly. It belonged to the club, and was legally purchased before the law went into effect.

The proposed ATF reg is NOTHING like prohibition either.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

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spectre
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#27

Post by spectre » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:41 pm

With a bump stock, you can remedy the situation by fixing it to be a normal, legal, rifle stock. After the modifications required, it is still a functional rifle stock when you’re done. I didn't receive compensation when I had to modify a folding stock to not fold, to stay legal in the 90s. I'm not sure why a bump stock is different, but good luck with that.
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srothstein
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#28

Post by srothstein » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:51 am

Zoo wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:42 pm
Unless the government is taking the bump stocks and issuing them to the police and military, how is it a taking requiring compensation under the Fifth Amendment?
This is where we get to use bad case law against them. The Kelo v. New London case said that public use including just getting an economic benefit for the community from the seizure. The purpose of this taking is to reduce crime, which is an economic benefit to the community.

So, if I have to turn in my bumpstock or go to jail, it is a seizure. The purpose of the seizure is to gain an economic benefit for the community by reducing crime. This means I have to be paid for it under the Fifth Amendment.

Or they can overturn the New London decision, which would also be a good thing.
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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#29

Post by tbrown » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:02 pm

Here's a chance for the "class action lawsuit" crowd to put their money where their mouth is. :evil2:

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Re: HB 349 - Make bump stocks illegal in Texas

#30

Post by John Galt » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:04 pm

Never heard of them before Las Vegas.

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