Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

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sugar land dave.
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#76

Post by sugar land dave. » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:41 am

If this is just the culmination of a tragic set of circumstances, would criminally negligent homicide be a more appropriate charge? At first glance it seems like the least charge that can acknowledge the death by officer.

It is a sad turn of events as reported.


Killadocg23
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#77

Post by Killadocg23 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:18 pm

ELB wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 am
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am
Being tired from working a 14hr shift is no excuse. How many thousands of people work 14hr shifts everyday and don’t go to the wrong apartment and shoot somebody in their OWN apartment. Just wow.
Not an excuse, and jury still out on what exactly happened here, but fatigue is not a trivial factor either. The military and commercial air services came to grips with this a long time ago because when a pilot makes a fatigue-induced error that kills, it's immediate, spectacular, and takes a lot of people and $$$ with him. Hence flying hour restrictions are in place. The commercial trucking industry has sleep/drive restrictions. It appears to me the work shifts for doctors in training and in ERs are often pretty brutal, actually, and it's been accepted for a long time that it's part of being a doctor in those circumstances. Coincidentally perhaps, there seem to be a high rate of errors in hospitals. But the results of erroneous medicine happen to individual patients, one at a time, and are not always fatal,, and thus are handled individually. So short of cutting off the wrong leg they don't make a newspaper headline like crashing an airliner does.

Cops would seem to be in a similar situation as doctors -- long shifts, sometimes double shifts, probably most fatigue-induced errors are small and not very noticeable to the public at large. Applying duty hour restrictions to cops (and medical personnel) will drive up costs substantially, so I don't see anyone making a push for this any time soon.
Points noted.

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#78

Post by Bitter Clinger » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:18 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 am
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am
Being tired from working a 14hr shift is no excuse. How many thousands of people work 14hr shifts everyday and don’t go to the wrong apartment and shoot somebody in their OWN apartment. Just wow.
Not an excuse, and jury still out on what exactly happened here, but fatigue is not a trivial factor either. The military and commercial air services came to grips with this a long time ago because when a pilot makes a fatigue-induced error that kills, it's immediate, spectacular, and takes a lot of people and $$$ with him. Hence flying hour restrictions are in place. The commercial trucking industry has sleep/drive restrictions. It appears to me the work shifts for doctors in training and in ERs are often pretty brutal, actually, and it's been accepted for a long time that it's part of being a doctor in those circumstances. Coincidentally perhaps, there seem to be a high rate of errors in hospitals. But the results of erroneous medicine happen to individual patients, one at a time, and are not always fatal,, and thus are handled individually. So short of cutting off the wrong leg they don't make a newspaper headline like crashing an airliner does.

Cops would seem to be in a similar situation as doctors -- long shifts, sometimes double shifts, probably most fatigue-induced errors are small and not very noticeable to the public at large. Applying duty hour restrictions to cops (and medical personnel) will drive up costs substantially, so I don't see anyone making a push for this any time soon.
Points noted.
There are duty restriction in place for medical residents.
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"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." - Wyatt Earp
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talltex
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#79

Post by talltex » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:45 pm
We empower LEO's with the ability to arrest and imprison our fellow citizens. This responsibility should come with a higher standard of acceptable behavior than we have for the citizenry as a whole. We don't yet know all the facts here. But I do know that this officer should be held to at least the same standard that would apply if I (a non-LEO) did the same thing she did.


Obviously a full investigation needs to occur and if there was prior intent that changes everything. But, if the fact is that there was no prior intent, then it sounds like the LEO is being treated in the same way that a non-LEO citizen would be. That was my main point and concern.
I agree with your first statement. However, in this case the LEO was NOT treated in the same manner that you would have been. You would have been placed in custody pending an arraignment and being charged with manslaughter. Almost assuredly that would have happened the following morning at the earliest. You would have had to hire an attorney sometime during the night or early the next morning to represent you, and only AFTER the hearing when a formal charge had been made, would you have had the opportunity to try and make bail. The officer was not placed in custody or required to make bail and was allowed to remain free while charges were pending.
"I looked out under the sun and saw that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong" Ecclesiastes 9:11

"The race may not always go to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets" Damon Runyon


talltex
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#80

Post by talltex » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:16 pm

ELB wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 am
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am
Being tired from working a 14hr shift is no excuse. How many thousands of people work 14hr shifts everyday and don’t go to the wrong apartment and shoot somebody in their OWN apartment. Just wow.
Not an excuse, and jury still out on what exactly happened here, but fatigue is not a trivial factor either.
While it is undoubtedly true that fatigue is not a trivial factor, neither is it an acceptable defense. However that is about the only straw that her attorney has to grasp at from the looks of it at this point.
"I looked out under the sun and saw that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong" Ecclesiastes 9:11

"The race may not always go to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets" Damon Runyon


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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#81

Post by ninjabread » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:36 pm

If she killed him off duty, is she personally liable in a wrongful death suit?
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

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bblhd672
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#82

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:58 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ghbor.html
Video showing how heavy metal fire doors automatically slam shut in building where white Dallas cop shot her black neighbor and apartment numbers are lit up in NEON contradict her story.

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thatguyoverthere
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#83

Post by thatguyoverthere » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:47 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/la ... ar-n909506
Investigators said in a search warrant of the apartment of Botham Jean, 26, that they were looking for “any contraband, such as narcotics, and other items that may have been used in criminal offenses.” Investigators later said in a court document that they found 10.4 grams of marijuana during Saturday's search.
“The warrant seems to only be designed for one particular purpose,” Merritt said, “and that is to smear the victim.”
He said the officer's home has not been searched.
Interesting if true.


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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#84

Post by MaduroBU » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am

Bitter Clinger wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:18 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 am
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am
Being tired from working a 14hr shift is no excuse. How many thousands of people work 14hr shifts everyday and don’t go to the wrong apartment and shoot somebody in their OWN apartment. Just wow.
Not an excuse, and jury still out on what exactly happened here, but fatigue is not a trivial factor either. The military and commercial air services came to grips with this a long time ago because when a pilot makes a fatigue-induced error that kills, it's immediate, spectacular, and takes a lot of people and $$$ with him. Hence flying hour restrictions are in place. The commercial trucking industry has sleep/drive restrictions. It appears to me the work shifts for doctors in training and in ERs are often pretty brutal, actually, and it's been accepted for a long time that it's part of being a doctor in those circumstances. Coincidentally perhaps, there seem to be a high rate of errors in hospitals. But the results of erroneous medicine happen to individual patients, one at a time, and are not always fatal,, and thus are handled individually. So short of cutting off the wrong leg they don't make a newspaper headline like crashing an airliner does.

Cops would seem to be in a similar situation as doctors -- long shifts, sometimes double shifts, probably most fatigue-induced errors are small and not very noticeable to the public at large. Applying duty hour restrictions to cops (and medical personnel) will drive up costs substantially, so I don't see anyone making a push for this any time soon.
Points noted.
There are duty restriction in place for medical residents.
Neurosurgery residents don't have duty hour restrictions. I routinely violated them while in training. It's just part of the job.

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#85

Post by Bitter Clinger » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:12 am

MaduroBU wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:18 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 am
Killadocg23 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am
Being tired from working a 14hr shift is no excuse. How many thousands of people work 14hr shifts everyday and don’t go to the wrong apartment and shoot somebody in their OWN apartment. Just wow.
Not an excuse, and jury still out on what exactly happened here, but fatigue is not a trivial factor either. The military and commercial air services came to grips with this a long time ago because when a pilot makes a fatigue-induced error that kills, it's immediate, spectacular, and takes a lot of people and $$$ with him. Hence flying hour restrictions are in place. The commercial trucking industry has sleep/drive restrictions. It appears to me the work shifts for doctors in training and in ERs are often pretty brutal, actually, and it's been accepted for a long time that it's part of being a doctor in those circumstances. Coincidentally perhaps, there seem to be a high rate of errors in hospitals. But the results of erroneous medicine happen to individual patients, one at a time, and are not always fatal,, and thus are handled individually. So short of cutting off the wrong leg they don't make a newspaper headline like crashing an airliner does.

Cops would seem to be in a similar situation as doctors -- long shifts, sometimes double shifts, probably most fatigue-induced errors are small and not very noticeable to the public at large. Applying duty hour restrictions to cops (and medical personnel) will drive up costs substantially, so I don't see anyone making a push for this any time soon.
Points noted.
There are duty restriction in place for medical residents.
Neurosurgery residents don't have duty hour restrictions. I routinely violated them while in training. It's just part of the job.
How long ago was that?
"You may all go to H3ll, and I will go to Texas." - Davy Crockett
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." - Wyatt Earp
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MaduroBU
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#86

Post by MaduroBU » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:26 am

7 years for me, but neurosurgery residents still have no formal duty hours.


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#87

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 am

thatguyoverthere wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:47 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/la ... ar-n909506
Investigators said in a search warrant of the apartment of Botham Jean, 26, that they were looking for “any contraband, such as narcotics, and other items that may have been used in criminal offenses.” Investigators later said in a court document that they found 10.4 grams of marijuana during Saturday's search.
“The warrant seems to only be designed for one particular purpose,” Merritt said, “and that is to smear the victim.”
He said the officer's home has not been searched.
Interesting if true.
If this is true, this really is starting to smell bad.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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PriestTheRunner
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#88

Post by PriestTheRunner » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:44 am

bblhd672 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:58 pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ghbor.html
Video showing how heavy metal fire doors automatically slam shut in building where white Dallas cop shot her black neighbor and apartment numbers are lit up in NEON contradict her story.
But it is off to the side of the door. Not on it. I can see how I wouldn't look at the number.

Door #1:
Image
Image

Door #2:
Image
Image

.... You tell me if you could instinctively tell them apart while tired.


philip964
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#89

Post by philip964 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:23 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 am
thatguyoverthere wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:47 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/la ... ar-n909506
Investigators said in a search warrant of the apartment of Botham Jean, 26, that they were looking for “any contraband, such as narcotics, and other items that may have been used in criminal offenses.” Investigators later said in a court document that they found 10.4 grams of marijuana during Saturday's search.
“The warrant seems to only be designed for one particular purpose,” Merritt said, “and that is to smear the victim.”
He said the officer's home has not been searched.
Interesting if true.
If this is true, this really is starting to smell bad.
I would say that this would not look good if they did not also search the shooters apartment.

The victim had a round red floor mat at the entrance to his apartment which would give his door entrance a very unique appearance.

The apartment door is a rated fire door just like you would find in most new hotels. It shuts and latches automatically. Thus the door was not ajar unless propped open by a stopper of some kind which still should be there as evidence. They said if the wrong electronic key is inserted you get a flashing red light just like in a hotel.

She had filed a noise complaint with the apartment complex about the victim.

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Officer Invades Apartment, Shoots Resident

#90

Post by Bitter Clinger » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:06 pm

MaduroBU wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:26 am
7 years for me, but neurosurgery residents still have no formal duty hours.
Sorry, badly worded question. If they don't have them, how did you routinely violate?
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