Root Cause Analysis Training

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suthdj
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#16

Post by suthdj » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:22 am

RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up
Oh, you mean the operator needed more training. "rlol"
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#17

Post by Right2Carry » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:45 am

RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up
You would think that but I work for a company that believes SOMETHING could have been done to prevent the operator from screwing up. You wouldn't believe the man hours that are spent trying to idiot proof processes because an operator screwed up.
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#18

Post by suthdj » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:52 am

Right2Carry wrote:
RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up
You would think that but I work for a company that believes SOMETHING could have been done to prevent the operator from screwing up. You wouldn't believe the man hours that are spent trying to idiot proof processes because an operator screwed up.


No such thing as idiot proof only idiot resistant, there will always be a slightly smarter idiot.
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#19

Post by mloamiller » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:02 am

I've been in software development for about 25 years and many/most root causes turn out to be a "PICNIC" - "Problem In Chair Not In Computer."
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#20

Post by OldCannon » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:27 am

jmra wrote::iagree:
ISO9000 and Kaizen meetings - two of my most reoccurring nightmares.
Hopefully we all appreciate the irony of having wasteful Kaizen meetings :lol:

(Note: I'm a very big believer in the purpose of Kaizen, but I'm dismayed when somebody thinks it's something to formalize)
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#21

Post by suthdj » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:36 am

mloamiller wrote:I've been in software development for about 25 years and many/most root causes turn out to be a "PICNIC" - "Problem In Chair Not In Computer."
I like this. :iagree:
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#22

Post by txcharvel » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:40 am

G26ster wrote:Wow, that reference from ISO9000 brought back some real nightmarish memories :shock: One of the reasons "root cause analysis" has such poor results in many companies is they simply don't fully grasp the real simplicity of ISO, and create a big, heavy, cumbersome system that works for no one. I'm so glad I'm retired :lol:
This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.

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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#23

Post by jmra » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:07 pm

txcharvel wrote:
G26ster wrote:Wow, that reference from ISO9000 brought back some real nightmarish memories :shock: One of the reasons "root cause analysis" has such poor results in many companies is they simply don't fully grasp the real simplicity of ISO, and create a big, heavy, cumbersome system that works for no one. I'm so glad I'm retired :lol:
This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.
It's been a while since I was in the business, but at the time if you were doing any type of business with Europe you had to be ISO certified. You couldn't even sit at the table to discuss a bid without the certification. Things may well have changed in the last decade.
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#24

Post by Setxjeff » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:26 pm

With 38 years as an operator most of the problems I encountered was incorrect information and poor upkeep of our instruments. If your process is temperature, pressure or level depenant the field instruments need to be correct no matter how whiz bang the control system or operator is, without correct information nothing works correctly. In my job I was controlling equipment almost a mile away or 274 feet above me from a control room that I could physically only see about 5% of the equipment I was controlling.
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#25

Post by mloamiller » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:35 am

txcharvel wrote:This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.
When I first heard of ISO9000 certification, it was described as "It means you have a very well-documented process. Not that you follow it necessarily, just that it's written down."
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#26

Post by Setxjeff » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:51 am

I always love the idea of ISO. You will try to do it the same way every time even if it's wrong. Lol
A company making concrete life jackets could get ISO certification.
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#27

Post by Taypo » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:56 am

ISO and SixSigma are what finally drove me out of the corporate world. I sat in on a Kaizen where we discussed lunch breaks for over an hour - turns out that people go to lunch early/late sometimes and theres no amount of paperwork that can change that. Who knew?

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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#28

Post by OldCannon » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:11 pm

One of my favorite sayings....
bad_meeting.jpg
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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#29

Post by LabRat » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:29 pm

jmra wrote:It's been a while since I was in the business, but at the time if you were doing any type of business with Europe you had to be ISO certified. You couldn't even sit at the table to discuss a bid without the certification. Things may well have changed in the last decade.
Still true, at least in the Medical Device world I work in. If you're not ISO certified, then don't even bother.

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Re: Root Cause Analysis Training

#30

Post by puma guy » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:42 pm

I'd forgotten all the programs I survived in my 35 years in the refining industry. ISO, RCA, DuPont TAKE Two and STOP, SAP, Statistical Analysis, Quality Is Free, OSHA VPP-STAR, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Many I can't recall. "rlol"
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