+P vs Hollow Point

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#16

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:27 pm

Teamless wrote:Shorty, thanks,
I am asking about the +P and Hollow point for defensive only, not range time.
You're most likely going to be using a hollow point, regardless of whether it is loaded to +P pressures or not. You have to get that important distinction into your head. Hollow point is a bullet type, abbreviated as "JHP" for "Jacketed Hollow Point." The term +P refers to the pressure generated by the cartridge when it fires a larger than normal load of powder. A +P, or +P+ load has more gunpowder in it, and will generate higher pressures, and therefore higher bullet velocities, than the same bullet loaded over a standard load of powder.

It's like your asking "should I put high octane gas or bananas in my car's gas tank?" ...when you should either be asking if high octane gas is preferable to low octane gas, or asking whether bananas are better than apples. The two categories are really unrelated.

Now, if you want to know whether to carry +P 9mm ammo or not, begin by assuming that you'll be carrying hollow points, regardless of whether they are +P or not, and then ask yourself whether or not you really think you need the higher velocity of a +P round. That's a call only you can make. Just be aware that shooting them is harder on your gun, and they tend to be less pleasant to shoot for practice purposes.

I only use +P ammo in one of my guns, and that is a S&W 642, because the .38 Special cartridge is a little bit anemic compared to some other cartridges — particularly in a 1-7/8" barrel — and therefore a +P load is likely to perform better. OTH, all my other carry guns are in .45 ACP, and while +P ammo would probably make them more lethal, standard pressure cartridges with proper bullet design and plenty lethal already in that caliber, and they don't beat the gun up.
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#17

Post by SigX5 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am

Yo guys. First time on this site. This thread was appealing. I just purchased my first handgun. I was in the military and loved the 9 mm so I recently went with the Sig X5. The salesman explained that I should have a magazine of hollow point and that i could also use +p. He didn’t really explain that so i also was under the impression they were mutually exclusive.

As I understand the attributes are different now, the question really is not this or that, as in +p or hollow point. The question is what does each do, on its own?

So am I hearing this correctly? +p are used for stopping power and hollow point are used to control collateral damage? So if I’m in my house and don’t care about what my bullet hits after it takes down the intruder, then I would use +p. It would have greater force and therefore more stopping power. Also these bullets will do more wear on my gun and will cost a lot more.

However, if I’m in my house and I care that my kids or wife or husband could be behind the intruder, then I would opt for the hollow point? It will flatten on impact and therefore has less penetration power and is less likely to travel through an intruder into my neighbors home. This type of round will cost more than normal 9 mm but not as much as +p.
Are those correct summaries? I suppose for completeness you could add what a +p hollow point combo is good for. I assume the ultimate home defense round? Stopping power plus collateral damage mitigation?


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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#18

Post by cmgee67 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:45 am

This thread makes my brain hurt.....


You cannot walk into Bass pro and buy a box that is marked 9mm +p ammunition. If you could it would be a full metal jack projectile. The ONLY ammo you can buy that is +P is a hollow point. The +P literally means plus pressure. Typically it is used to gain velocity for your hollow point to insure expansion especially out of a shorter barrel. All the extra pressure does is give you more velocity. It does in fact wear out your gun quicker than standard. Just buy hollow point ammunition for your specific caliber from a reputable brand such as Remington, Hornady, Federal ect... and walk on down the road.

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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#19

Post by Jusme » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:55 am

You will want to use hollow point for SD. They are designed to expand, and expend their energy inside the body cavity, thereby reducing the chance of over penetration. +P refers to the higher pressures generated, by rounds that have either a few more grains of powder, or are designed to create higher pressures. The salesman, when he said +p was referring to the fact, that your gun was designed to shoot higher pressure rounds. Some guns are not.
Hollow points are the actual projectiles, that have a cavity, that will cause the bullet to expand when it strikes something, i.e. a body. FMJ ( full metal jacket) is a bullet that is solid, and has a surrounding metal casing. These bullets, do not expand, much, if any, in soft tissue, and are primarily for practice. FMJ ammo can over penetrate, and continue on through walls etc, if used as defensive ammo, and may not stop an attacker, due to the smaller wound cavity, and lack of energy expended.
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#20

Post by JDstar » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:29 am

cmgee67 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:45 am
The ONLY ammo you can buy that is +P is a hollow point.
Well, that just isn't true. Nearly every ammo maker that produces 9mm FMJ offers a +p version (sometimes labeled NATO which is 10-15% higher than normal loads and therefore +p). Aguila, Winchester, Fiochi, Sig, Underwood all manufacture +p FMJ loads in 9mm and other calibers as well.

For self defense, pick a hollowpoint that feeds reliably in your firearm and that you can control. If you have a short barrel, or just want a little more velocity to ensure expansion of that hollowpoint on the target, then go for the +p version. Regardless of what you pick, practice to make sure you can hit the target... hitting your target is the key to successful self defense. The type of bullet used won't make up for poor marksmanship, and a miss with either a FMJ or HP is the same regardless of how fast the bullet is moving.
Last edited by JDstar on Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#21

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:37 am

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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#22

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:48 am

cmgee67 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:45 am
This thread makes my brain hurt.....


You cannot walk into Bass pro and buy a box that is marked 9mm +p ammunition. If you could it would be a full metal jack projectile. The ONLY ammo you can buy that is +P is a hollow point. The +P literally means plus pressure. Typically it is used to gain velocity for your hollow point to insure expansion especially out of a shorter barrel. All the extra pressure does is give you more velocity. It does in fact wear out your gun quicker than standard. Just buy hollow point ammunition for your specific caliber from a reputable brand such as Remington, Hornady, Federal ect... and walk on down the road.
No sir.. You are incorrect... I just sold off about 500 rounds of +p Nato 9mm ammo.. Both Ball and hollow point..... As you can see below, you can find 9mm +p in both ball and hollow point..
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#23

Post by Rob72 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 am

Hirtenberger L7A1 and Uzi black tip are both ball in +P+, running well over 50k PSI. I don't know that either is still available.

+P ball is useful in penetrating "heavy concealment," i.e., the average car door, business wood/glass door, padded motorcycle jacket, etc.. +P HPs generally perform well in the 124+ grain weight (9mm) against the average non-armored biped.

Some prefer lighter (98-115 gr) some like heavier (148 gr, generally subsonic, but some loads are available at slightly~1000 fps, I believe)


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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#24

Post by flechero » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:50 pm

Teamless wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:39 pm
I am asking about the +P and Hollow point for defensive only, not range time.
Depends... like anything you run for SD, you need to run a quantity that specific load of xxx+P before carrying it.

For example, just because you may have run Gold Dot or XTP projectiles in the past, doesn't mean that you gun will run it in +P without a hiccup... OAL, and crimp on each lot and load type can vary as will your gun's performance based on those characteristics and how it's set up. (springs, extractor, etc.) Finally case pressure, brass type and muzzle velocity can also affect performance. (and point of impact)

So the bottom line is that if you decide that a particular offering in +p is needed or wanted, you treat it like anything new and run it through the paces to confirm it's gtg in your gun.

Keep in mind also that the added velocity comes at a price... usually recoil which can impact your accuracy, control and speed to follow up shots.


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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#25

Post by montgomery » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:51 pm

Teamless wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:21 pm
So what I am hearing so far, is that Hollow Points are the way to go.
Apples and oranges. Hollowpoint refers to the bullet and the +P refers to the powder in the case.

The "way to go" depends on the circumstances you need the ammunition for. Are you looking for self-defense ammunition?

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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 pm

SigX5 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am
Yo guys. First time on this site. This thread was appealing. I just purchased my first handgun. I was in the military and loved the 9 mm so I recently went with the Sig X5. The salesman explained that I should have a magazine of hollow point and that i could also use +p. He didn’t really explain that so i also was under the impression they were mutually exclusive.

As I understand the attributes are different now, the question really is not this or that, as in +p or hollow point. The question is what does each do, on its own?

So am I hearing this correctly? +p are used for stopping power and hollow point are used to control collateral damage? So if I’m in my house and don’t care about what my bullet hits after it takes down the intruder, then I would use +p. It would have greater force and therefore more stopping power. Also these bullets will do more wear on my gun and will cost a lot more.

However, if I’m in my house and I care that my kids or wife or husband could be behind the intruder, then I would opt for the hollow point? It will flatten on impact and therefore has less penetration power and is less likely to travel through an intruder into my neighbors home. This type of round will cost more than normal 9 mm but not as much as +p.
Are those correct summaries? I suppose for completeness you could add what a +p hollow point combo is good for. I assume the ultimate home defense round? Stopping power plus collateral damage mitigation?
Get it out of your head that +P and hollowpoints are in the same category of things. Hollowpoints, also called "JHP", is a type of bullet construction. +P is a measure of case pressure during cartridge detonation. Generally speaking, cartridges of a given caliber have a "standard" pressure measurement for the caliber. Adding additional gunpowder to the cartridge increases the pressure in the case during detonation. So, take a standard load and increase the powder, and you have a +P load. Take a +P load and add even more powder, and you’ve got a +P+ load. OR.... take a standard load, but add a longer bullet that sits deeper in the case, and that can increase pressures to +P levels.

Exactly none of this has anything to do with bullet selection except in one way.... hollowpoints are almost always superior for self defense. They do more damage, and are less likely to overpenetrate and hit an unintended target. Adding more gunpowder to create a +P load with that hollowpoint might make it perform even better, or it might make it disintegrate after entering the target.

With rare exception, using a hollowpoint is the better choice. But your decision whether to use a standard pressure hollowpoint load, or a +P or +P+ hollowpoint load should be dependent on several different factors, including what kind of gun you’re using, in what caliber, for what intended purpose, and your personal sensitivity to recoil.
• Give me Liberty or I'll get up and get it myself.
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#27

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:08 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 pm
SigX5 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am
Yo guys. First time on this site. This thread was appealing. I just purchased my first handgun. I was in the military and loved the 9 mm so I recently went with the Sig X5. The salesman explained that I should have a magazine of hollow point and that i could also use +p. He didn’t really explain that so i also was under the impression they were mutually exclusive.

As I understand the attributes are different now, the question really is not this or that, as in +p or hollow point. The question is what does each do, on its own?

So am I hearing this correctly? +p are used for stopping power and hollow point are used to control collateral damage? So if I’m in my house and don’t care about what my bullet hits after it takes down the intruder, then I would use +p. It would have greater force and therefore more stopping power. Also these bullets will do more wear on my gun and will cost a lot more.

However, if I’m in my house and I care that my kids or wife or husband could be behind the intruder, then I would opt for the hollow point? It will flatten on impact and therefore has less penetration power and is less likely to travel through an intruder into my neighbors home. This type of round will cost more than normal 9 mm but not as much as +p.
Are those correct summaries? I suppose for completeness you could add what a +p hollow point combo is good for. I assume the ultimate home defense round? Stopping power plus collateral damage mitigation?
Get it out of your head that +P and hollowpoints are in the same category of things. Hollowpoints, also called "JHP", is a type of bullet construction. +P is a measure of case pressure during cartridge detonation. Generally speaking, cartridges of a given caliber have a "standard" pressure measurement for the caliber. Adding additional gunpowder to the cartridge increases the pressure in the case during detonation. So, take a standard load and increase the powder, and you have a +P load. Take a +P load and add even more powder, and you’ve got a +P+ load. OR.... take a standard load, but add a longer bullet that sits deeper in the case, and that can increase pressures to +P levels.

Exactly none of this has anything to do with bullet selection except in one way.... hollowpoints are almost always superior for self defense. They do more damage, and are less likely to overpenetrate and hit an unintended target. Adding more gunpowder to create a +P load with that hollowpoint might make it perform even better, or it might make it disintegrate after entering the target.

With rare exception, using a hollowpoint is the better choice. But your decision whether to use a standard pressure hollowpoint load, or a +P or +P+ hollowpoint load should be dependent on several different factors, including what kind of gun you’re using, in what caliber, for what intended purpose, and your personal sensitivity to recoil.
Even after nine and a half years and multiple posts above this one, there is always one left. :smilelol5:

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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#28

Post by DEB » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:53 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:08 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 pm
SigX5 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am
Yo guys. First time on this site. This thread was appealing. I just purchased my first handgun. I was in the military and loved the 9 mm so I recently went with the Sig X5. The salesman explained that I should have a magazine of hollow point and that i could also use +p. He didn’t really explain that so i also was under the impression they were mutually exclusive.

As I understand the attributes are different now, the question really is not this or that, as in +p or hollow point. The question is what does each do, on its own?

So am I hearing this correctly? +p are used for stopping power and hollow point are used to control collateral damage? So if I’m in my house and don’t care about what my bullet hits after it takes down the intruder, then I would use +p. It would have greater force and therefore more stopping power. Also these bullets will do more wear on my gun and will cost a lot more.

However, if I’m in my house and I care that my kids or wife or husband could be behind the intruder, then I would opt for the hollow point? It will flatten on impact and therefore has less penetration power and is less likely to travel through an intruder into my neighbors home. This type of round will cost more than normal 9 mm but not as much as +p.
Are those correct summaries? I suppose for completeness you could add what a +p hollow point combo is good for. I assume the ultimate home defense round? Stopping power plus collateral damage mitigation?
Get it out of your head that +P and hollowpoints are in the same category of things. Hollowpoints, also called "JHP", is a type of bullet construction. +P is a measure of case pressure during cartridge detonation. Generally speaking, cartridges of a given caliber have a "standard" pressure measurement for the caliber. Adding additional gunpowder to the cartridge increases the pressure in the case during detonation. So, take a standard load and increase the powder, and you have a +P load. Take a +P load and add even more powder, and you’ve got a +P+ load. OR.... take a standard load, but add a longer bullet that sits deeper in the case, and that can increase pressures to +P levels.

Exactly none of this has anything to do with bullet selection except in one way.... hollowpoints are almost always superior for self defense. They do more damage, and are less likely to overpenetrate and hit an unintended target. Adding more gunpowder to create a +P load with that hollowpoint might make it perform even better, or it might make it disintegrate after entering the target.

With rare exception, using a hollowpoint is the better choice. But your decision whether to use a standard pressure hollowpoint load, or a +P or +P+ hollowpoint load should be dependent on several different factors, including what kind of gun you’re using, in what caliber, for what intended purpose, and your personal sensitivity to recoil.
Even after nine and a half years and multiple posts above this one, there is always one left. :smilelol5:
I for one appreciate when folks bring up old posts. I don't need more information on +P or NATO rounds, but others might. Not all are as all knowing as some. I have read here when folks ask questions and others state to do a search and when one does and asks questions concerning it, others belittle. So, to the OP welcome aboard and keep asking questions. I love old Milsurp firearms, and often resurect old threads, just because what I had read doesn't fully answer my question. Most will answer politely and attempt to help you out and then there are others...
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#29

Post by crazy2medic » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:39 am

I use standard 230gr Hydrashoks in my 1911, and use 185gr +p Hydrashoks in my carbine, the higher velocity give me range in the carbine, exiting out the muzzle at 1300 fps
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Re: +P vs Hollow Point

#30

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:53 am

DEB wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:53 am
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:08 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 pm
SigX5 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am
Yo guys. First time on this site. This thread was appealing. I just purchased my first handgun. I was in the military and loved the 9 mm so I recently went with the Sig X5. The salesman explained that I should have a magazine of hollow point and that i could also use +p. He didn’t really explain that so i also was under the impression they were mutually exclusive.

As I understand the attributes are different now, the question really is not this or that, as in +p or hollow point. The question is what does each do, on its own?

So am I hearing this correctly? +p are used for stopping power and hollow point are used to control collateral damage? So if I’m in my house and don’t care about what my bullet hits after it takes down the intruder, then I would use +p. It would have greater force and therefore more stopping power. Also these bullets will do more wear on my gun and will cost a lot more.

However, if I’m in my house and I care that my kids or wife or husband could be behind the intruder, then I would opt for the hollow point? It will flatten on impact and therefore has less penetration power and is less likely to travel through an intruder into my neighbors home. This type of round will cost more than normal 9 mm but not as much as +p.
Are those correct summaries? I suppose for completeness you could add what a +p hollow point combo is good for. I assume the ultimate home defense round? Stopping power plus collateral damage mitigation?
Get it out of your head that +P and hollowpoints are in the same category of things. Hollowpoints, also called "JHP", is a type of bullet construction. +P is a measure of case pressure during cartridge detonation. Generally speaking, cartridges of a given caliber have a "standard" pressure measurement for the caliber. Adding additional gunpowder to the cartridge increases the pressure in the case during detonation. So, take a standard load and increase the powder, and you have a +P load. Take a +P load and add even more powder, and you’ve got a +P+ load. OR.... take a standard load, but add a longer bullet that sits deeper in the case, and that can increase pressures to +P levels.

Exactly none of this has anything to do with bullet selection except in one way.... hollowpoints are almost always superior for self defense. They do more damage, and are less likely to overpenetrate and hit an unintended target. Adding more gunpowder to create a +P load with that hollowpoint might make it perform even better, or it might make it disintegrate after entering the target.

With rare exception, using a hollowpoint is the better choice. But your decision whether to use a standard pressure hollowpoint load, or a +P or +P+ hollowpoint load should be dependent on several different factors, including what kind of gun you’re using, in what caliber, for what intended purpose, and your personal sensitivity to recoil.
Even after nine and a half years and multiple posts above this one, there is always one left. :smilelol5:
I for one appreciate when folks bring up old posts. I don't need more information on +P or NATO rounds, but others might. Not all are as all knowing as some. I have read here when folks ask questions and others state to do a search and when one does and asks questions concerning it, others belittle. So, to the OP welcome aboard and keep asking questions. I love old Milsurp firearms, and often resurect old threads, just because what I had read doesn't fully answer my question. Most will answer politely and attempt to help you out and then there are others...
I understand what you are saying but in this case the answer to the question was in the post just before the question asked. It seems if one is going to resurrect an old thread, one might read the thread to see if the answer to their question is already there.

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