5.7x28 - the real skinny?

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1

User avatar

Topic author
JALLEN
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 3081
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Comal County

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#16

Post by JALLEN » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:13 pm

The pistols are upwards of $1,000, some well upwards. Lots of nice pistols sell for less than half that.

I paid $1500 for a P7M8 years ago, and it was real good, but I heard nothing but good things about it before I bought it.

Are any available to try?
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.


The Marshal
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 782
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:16 am
Location: Rockwall TX

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#17

Post by The Marshal » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:15 pm

TargetMasters has both rifle and pistol for rent

User avatar

Topic author
JALLEN
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 3081
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Comal County

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#18

Post by JALLEN » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:16 pm

The Marshal wrote:TargetMasters has both rifle and pistol for rent
Where is that?
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

User avatar

Pawpaw
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5977
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Hunt County

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#19

Post by Pawpaw » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:41 pm

JALLEN wrote:
The Marshal wrote:TargetMasters has both rifle and pistol for rent
Where is that?
Richardson (If you throw a rock across the street, it will land in Garland. :lol: )
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

NRA Benefactor Life Member


MechAg94
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 1584
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#20

Post by MechAg94 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:12 pm

http://www.eliteammunition.com/#!/5-7x2 ... ort=normal
The highest velocity I see on Elite's site tops 2700 fps which is pretty good. It isn't 5.56X45, but that is pretty good.

User avatar

karder
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:14 pm
Location: El Paso

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#21

Post by karder » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:42 pm

MechAg94 wrote:http://www.eliteammunition.com/#!/5-7x2 ... ort=normal
The highest velocity I see on Elite's site tops 2700 fps which is pretty good. It isn't 5.56X45, but that is pretty good.
This page shows only what is currently available.
The SM4 sells out really quick so you have to keep an eye out for it and grab it when it comes up. It is usually gone in less than a day. Here is their description page showing their full offerings.

http://www.eliteammunition.com/test.html
“While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” ― Samuel Adams

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 23675
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#22

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:53 am

I believe I've mentioned this before, but a while back, Gun-Tests magazine did a comparison between the FN pistol, and the Kel-Tec PMR-30 in .22 WMR. In addition to comparing the two pistols side by side, they tested the ammo they had for both pistols in a wax ballistic medium to measure the relative depth and size of wound cavities of the two calibers.

You have to have an active subscription to read the full thing, but the article can be found here: http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/23_11/f ... s=GRDetail

In some regards, the test is irrelevant. The PMR-30 is (or was, the last time I checked) manufactured from unobtanium, whereas one can readily find the FiveseveN.

Here is what they said about the test medium:
We used several tubes of Ballistic Technology’s wax-like, easy-to-use Handgun Bullet Test Tubes (#100-002-900, $28) to take the guesswork out of determining terminal bullet performance. We were able to accurately measure penetration, retained bullet weight, expansion, and wound-cavity size for the two rounds and found the magnum more than holds its own with the 5.7. At close range we fired one 5.7 round into the 11-inch-long, 3.5-inch-wide Handgun Test Tube. It carved out a 60-ml channel (total water volume) up to 1.2 inches wide, but didn’t exit the tube. A second 5.7 opened a 75-ml channel, and also didn’t exit the tube. For the 22 WMR, we first tried one tube, since it was "only" a 22 Mag. The Bullet Test Tube states that one tube is sufficient for 9mm through 45 ACP cartridges, and two tubes should be used for magnum loads. The Remington PSP had enough energy to punch a quarter-inch-wide and half-inch-long hole through the metal end of the tube, exiting an entire tube length. So we reshot it with two tubes. The round punched 4 inches deep into the second tube (15 inches overall penetration) and created a 60-ml wound channel. The Super-X didn’t exit the first tube (the mushroomed bullet stuck inside the tube cap) and created a 66-ml channel. The Dynapoint traveled 14 inches into the media and chewed out a 50-ml channel.

All in, we thought the performance of the Remington 22 Magnum PSP was the best of any ammunition tested. We liked how the bullet mushroomed and held together. The other 22 WMR rounds we tested broke up into much smaller pieces. If we were going to carry the PMR-30 for self-defense, it would be loaded with the PSP rounds.
I'm actually not knocking the FNH pistol. It's a good pistol, and I wouldn't mind owning one some day. But the cost of the ammunition compares unfavorably to 5.56 NATO, let alone to .22 WMR, if ammo cost (and availability) is going to be a factor in deciding which gun you'll buy. So if ammo cost and availability is an issue for someone, then maybe the PMR-30 might fill that role.......although there is no steel penetrator option available for it that I'm aware of, if that's what floats your boat. But like I said.....good luck finding one for sale, especially at or below MSRP.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


mrvmax
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:16 pm
Location: Friendswood
Contact:

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#23

Post by mrvmax » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:05 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:I believe I've mentioned this before, but a while back, Gun-Tests magazine did a comparison between the FN pistol, and the Kel-Tec PMR-30 in .22 WMR. In addition to comparing the two pistols side by side, they tested the ammo they had for both pistols in a wax ballistic medium to measure the relative depth and size of wound cavities of the two calibers.

You have to have an active subscription to read the full thing, but the article can be found here: http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/23_11/f ... s=GRDetail

In some regards, the test is irrelevant. The PMR-30 is (or was, the last time I checked) manufactured from unobtanium, whereas one can readily find the FiveseveN.

Here is what they said about the test medium:
We used several tubes of Ballistic Technology’s wax-like, easy-to-use Handgun Bullet Test Tubes (#100-002-900, $28) to take the guesswork out of determining terminal bullet performance. We were able to accurately measure penetration, retained bullet weight, expansion, and wound-cavity size for the two rounds and found the magnum more than holds its own with the 5.7. At close range we fired one 5.7 round into the 11-inch-long, 3.5-inch-wide Handgun Test Tube. It carved out a 60-ml channel (total water volume) up to 1.2 inches wide, but didn’t exit the tube. A second 5.7 opened a 75-ml channel, and also didn’t exit the tube. For the 22 WMR, we first tried one tube, since it was "only" a 22 Mag. The Bullet Test Tube states that one tube is sufficient for 9mm through 45 ACP cartridges, and two tubes should be used for magnum loads. The Remington PSP had enough energy to punch a quarter-inch-wide and half-inch-long hole through the metal end of the tube, exiting an entire tube length. So we reshot it with two tubes. The round punched 4 inches deep into the second tube (15 inches overall penetration) and created a 60-ml wound channel. The Super-X didn’t exit the first tube (the mushroomed bullet stuck inside the tube cap) and created a 66-ml channel. The Dynapoint traveled 14 inches into the media and chewed out a 50-ml channel.

All in, we thought the performance of the Remington 22 Magnum PSP was the best of any ammunition tested. We liked how the bullet mushroomed and held together. The other 22 WMR rounds we tested broke up into much smaller pieces. If we were going to carry the PMR-30 for self-defense, it would be loaded with the PSP rounds.
I'm actually not knocking the FNH pistol. It's a good pistol, and I wouldn't mind owning one some day. But the cost of the ammunition compares unfavorably to 5.56 NATO, let alone to .22 WMR, if ammo cost (and availability) is going to be a factor in deciding which gun you'll buy. So if ammo cost and availability is an issue for someone, then maybe the PMR-30 might fill that role.......although there is no steel penetrator option available for it that I'm aware of, if that's what floats your boat. But like I said.....good luck finding one for sale, especially at or below MSRP.
I'm not sure if you have tried to find 22mag Ammo lately but it is hard to find. It can be found online at a few places but the 5.7 Ammo is easier to obtain right now.


MechAg94
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 1584
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#24

Post by MechAg94 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:14 am

I will have to go dig up that Gun Tests article. I don't remember that. I have a PMR-30.

User avatar

Topic author
JALLEN
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 3081
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Comal County

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#25

Post by JALLEN » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:57 am

Interesting.

Gunbroker has PMR-30 for ~$450 with 30 round magazine. Quite a difference. That's a lot of ammo!
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

User avatar

karder
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:14 pm
Location: El Paso

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#26

Post by karder » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:14 pm

In this Gun Test review the author notes he used "the FN-supplied 31-grain open-tipped FMJ rounds ". I am not sure which load he is talking about, but I think perhaps he is referring to the SS195LF. This is a hollow point (open-tipped?) round. This load, as well as all the FN commercially available ammo will probably compare very closely to a good .22 WMR round. The FN ammo functions great but it is watered down, and comparably expensive even in its neutered state.

There are much more potent loads available commercially, albeit at a high cost. The best rounds, (SM4 in my opinion) are over $2 bucks a pop. Not range ammo for sure.

Even the American Eagle brand tends to run about .46 to .50 a round. Compare that to 9mm and a lot of shooters get turned off. I would love to see more ammo companies get in the game as the 5.7X28 has a lot of potential and versatility, but unless another major firearm manufacturer starts producing pistols and carbines in this caliber, I doubt we will see the big ammo producers devoting research or production capacity on it.
“While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” ― Samuel Adams

User avatar

ELB
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 6124
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#27

Post by ELB » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:27 pm

For anyone who has actually handled a FiveSeven pistol:

Going by its specs, I really want to like pistol,butI've seen it only in pictures. The safety lever seems awfully far forward to me. How do you find it to operate?

I have short fingers, going by the pictures I am not sure that my thumb would reach the safety. That would be a big drawback, deal killer really. Along with the price of the gun and price of the ammo. :sad:
USAF 1982-2005
____________
The Most Interesting Texan in the World. :txflag:

User avatar

karder
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:14 pm
Location: El Paso

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#28

Post by karder » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:59 pm

ELB wrote:For anyone who has actually handled a FiveSeven pistol:

Going by its specs, I really want to like pistol,butI've seen it only in pictures. The safety lever seems awfully far forward to me. How do you find it to operate?

I have short fingers, going by the pictures I am not sure that my thumb would reach the safety. That would be a big drawback, deal killer really. Along with the price of the gun and price of the ammo. :sad:
I like the safety lever a lot. Once you get used to it, it is very intuitive. It is meant to be operated with the trigger finger. As you draw the weapon, and are practicing good trigger discipline, you trigger finger will rest along the slide and sit directly on top of the safety lever. The lever is easily flicked down as the finger moves into position on the trigger in preparation to fire the weapon. I spent years firing 1911 style pistols with the thumb operated safety lever and found the transition to this method to be very easy. All controls are ambidextrous.
“While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” ― Samuel Adams

User avatar

ELB
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 6124
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#29

Post by ELB » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:38 pm

karder wrote: ...

I like the safety lever a lot. Once you get used to it, it is very intuitive. It is meant to be operated with the trigger finger. ...
When I first saw it I thought maybe that was the case (trigger finger), then reconsidered, but lo and behold.

I have to say my initial reaction is suspicion. Have not been a fan of giving trigger finger more than one job. Suppose I would have to try it and see.

Thanks.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
The Most Interesting Texan in the World. :txflag:

User avatar

Javier730
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: 5.7x28 - the real skinny?

#30

Post by Javier730 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:59 pm

You will also have the checkered texture of the grip imprinted in your palms after holding one for a while.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann

Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”