Page 4 of 4

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 pm
by Bitter Clinger
TAM,

When I travel I by truck I carry my G19 Gen4 concealed strong side hip. By having the Roni and the RDS (and some 33 round mags), I can increase the effective distance over which I am accurate with the pistol (say from 25 out to 50 yards). I completely acknowledge the correctness of your statement with regard to barrel length, but with the Roni, when I exit the vehicle for the evening somewhere that I have not been before, I don't have to bring the long gun into the hotel with me and if it does get stolen, the thief does not get a gun, only an expensive, relatively light weight piece of non-functioning plastic. Hence my primary reasoning. YMMV.

BC

P.S. I have a SIG MPX with an 8" Bbl in 9mm that I have SBR'd and which is an absolute joy to shoot out to 100 yds+, but its heavier to lug around and way too expensive to leave overnight in the truck, even locked up.

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:54 am
by The Annoyed Man
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 pm
TAM,

When I travel I by truck I carry my G19 Gen4 concealed strong side hip. By having the Roni and the RDS (and some 33 round mags), I can increase the effective distance over which I am accurate with the pistol (say from 25 out to 50 yards). I completely acknowledge the correctness of your statement with regard to barrel length, but with the Roni, when I exit the vehicle for the evening somewhere that I have not been before, I don't have to bring the long gun into the hotel with me and if it does get stolen, the thief does not get a gun, only an expensive, relatively light weight piece of non-functioning plastic. Hence my primary reasoning. YMMV.

BC

P.S. I have a SIG MPX with an 8" Bbl in 9mm that I have SBR'd and which is an absolute joy to shoot out to 100 yds+, but its heavier to lug around and way too expensive to leave overnight in the truck, even locked up.
Well, the theft reason is a valid one I had not considered. I’ve “window-shopped” both the MPX and the CZ S1 Scorpion, and right now, both are a little too rich for my pocket book. But also, neither takes my Glock magazines, and I’m really trying to unify the platforms as much as possible.

What to do, what to do... :lol:

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 pm
by Bitter Clinger
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:54 am
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 pm
TAM,

When I travel I by truck I carry my G19 Gen4 concealed strong side hip. By having the Roni and the RDS (and some 33 round mags), I can increase the effective distance over which I am accurate with the pistol (say from 25 out to 50 yards). I completely acknowledge the correctness of your statement with regard to barrel length, but with the Roni, when I exit the vehicle for the evening somewhere that I have not been before, I don't have to bring the long gun into the hotel with me and if it does get stolen, the thief does not get a gun, only an expensive, relatively light weight piece of non-functioning plastic. Hence my primary reasoning. YMMV.

BC

P.S. I have a SIG MPX with an 8" Bbl in 9mm that I have SBR'd and which is an absolute joy to shoot out to 100 yds+, but its heavier to lug around and way too expensive to leave overnight in the truck, even locked up.
Well, the theft reason is a valid one I had not considered. I’ve “window-shopped” both the MPX and the CZ S1 Scorpion, and right now, both are a little too rich for my pocket book. But also, neither takes my Glock magazines, and I’m really trying to unify the platforms as much as possible.

What to do, what to do... :lol:
Yeah, the magazine thing doesn't really concern me. I would prefer .300 BO or even 5.56 over the 9 mm, as in the time it takes a 9mm to reach a 100 yard target you can pretty much light up a cigarette and pour yourself a mixed drink :biggrinjester:

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:24 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 pm
Yeah, the magazine thing doesn't really concern me. I would prefer .300 BO or even 5.56 over the 9 mm, as in the time it takes a 9mm to reach a 100 yard target you can pretty much light up a cigarette and pour yourself a mixed drink :biggrinjester:
I just saw a youtube video today by IraqVeteran8888 from several years ago, wherein he tests 9mm for "lethality" 7 yards to 440 yards. They shoot the closer targets with a CZ pistol. For the further targets, he uses a Keltec Sub-2000. They run the test with 124 grain FMJ, and 124 grain Federal HST, using both 3/4" plywood backed by 2x4s, and ballistic gelatin targets.

Surprisingly, the FMJ still had enough velocity/energy to punch through both the plywood and the 2x4 at 440 yards, and the HST had enough velocity/energy to expand in the ballistic gel at 440 yards...just not quite as dramatically as it did at close range.

Video Part 1:


Video Part 2:


Sure enough, the round takes a while to get down there at 440 yards, and it also calls into question whether or not you'd need to actually shoot someone at that distance. That's "escape and evasion" distance in my book. Still, it was nice to know that the cartridge is generally more capable than even I was willing to concede. I hear you on the .300 Blk, and already have a SBR in that chambering ... but again, it doesn't address the Glock magazine issue. I'm thinking in "get home" terms (as I'm sure you are too with that Mini Roni), more than I am interested in engaging in a long range shootout. I suppose I could just keep my SCAR 17 in the car. LOL

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:56 pm
by Maxwell
TAM,

I hate to admit it but I had to look up ACOG...
Image

:biggrinjester:

p.s., There are so many bad puns and double-entendres Charles would kick me off of the forum... :reddevil

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 pm
by Maxwell
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:24 pm
I just saw a youtube video today by IraqVeteran8888 from several years ago, wherein he tests 9mm for "lethality" 7 yards to 440 yards. They shoot the closer targets with a CZ pistol. For the further targets, he uses a Keltec Sub-2000. They run the test with 124 grain FMJ, and 124 grain Federal HST, using both 3/4" plywood backed by 2x4s, and ballistic gelatin targets.

Surprisingly, the FMJ still had enough velocity/energy to punch through both the plywood and the 2x4 at 440 yards, and the HST had enough velocity/energy to expand in the ballistic gel at 440 yards...just not quite as dramatically as it did at close range.

And this is why rule #4 is so important: Identify your target, and what is behind it!

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:56 pm
TAM,

I hate to admit it but I had to look up ACOG...
Image

:biggrinjester:

p.s., There are so many bad puns and double-entendres Charles would kick me off of the forum... :reddevil
LOLZ. I've honestly never bothered to look up any other definition. I've just always known it to mean "Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight".

Re: Red Dot VS. Scope - choice for AR-15

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:18 pm
by Bitter Clinger
Took the Micro Roni out for a range test. Mixed results:

At 25 yards had a very nice small fist sized group, so pistol precision increased as expected with the more stable platform. Had to be mindful of the offset of the RDS optic vs. the G19 bbl or would affect location of grouping at 25 yards (did not see that accuracy vs. precision issue at closer distances). Roni appears to grip pistol primarily at front of frame, so that malfunctions seemed to increase vs. classic two handed semiauto pistol grip, especially with longer (33 round Glock factory mags) - so advantage of larger capacity mags in question. Shot factory new 124 grain NATO and 124 grain +P JHP, no felt recoil to speak of. Front of pistol slide came out of Roni quite dirty, luckily its a Glock so will not require any cleaning :lol: . All in all it seems a reasonable compromise in that pistol precision improved but definitely not equivalent to a true pistol caliber carbine.