Winchester Train and Defend Ammuition

[RossA]

Went to the range with a student this past weekend who had a new Glock 42 .380. He brought three boxes of Winchester Train and Defend. The gun absolutely would not cycle with it. I figured that maybe it was dry since it was new, so I took it apart and lubed it. Still wouldn't cycle. I wondered out loud if maybe this ammo was a loaded a little lighter than most and didn't have enough recoil to operate the slide. We went up to the counter and bought some Sellier & Belliot "range ammo" (115 gr. FMJ) and the gun ran great.
Looking at the Winchester box, I saw that it said "lower recoil", which should be a giveaway that there might not be enough energy to operate the slide.
We all know that some guns like some ammo better than others, so just a heads up that if you have a gun with a rather stiff spring, you might stay away from this stuff. Might be great for other guns, or after the new Glock has an extra few hundred rounds through it.

[TexasCajun]

I've used their 9mm in my M&P Shield for a while now with no problem.

[Crash]

The only problems I had with it were with the last round out of the magazine of a Ruger LCP II--often failed to feed. I called Ruger and they told me it was probably a weak magazine spring and sent me a new one. I'll try again tomorrow and let you know.

Crash

[The Annoyed Man]

Having owned a couple of .380s (a Colt Govt, and a Keltech P3AT) myself, and having a fired a number of others (Berettas, Bersas, Sigs, Grendels, Brownings, etc.), and having listened to/read complaints from others about their own .380s, it is my considered observation that, as a general class of guns, .380 pistols are finicky little poots that are not worth the trouble they cause their owners........ not when you can buy 9mms of virtually the same size that will run like a top, all day long.

The G43 is 1/4" longer, 1/8" taller, 0.08" wider, has a sight radius 1/10" longer, a barrel .14" longer, and weighs 4.2 oz more unloaded than a G42. Those are fairly insignificant dimensional differences, for a significantly more powerful cartridge, in a more reliable chambering. I do understand why people used to buy .380s. There used to be few or no offerings in that size range for 9mm guns. But that hasn't been the case for a few years now as more and more single stack subcompact 9mm pistols entered the market. I honestly don't get why people still buy .380s. They aren't even that much easier to shoot.

But that's just me.

[EDITED TO CORRECT A TYPO.....]

[Crash]

Fired about 75 rounds from my LCP II today, including about 20 rounds of Winchester T & D (both types) and had no problems. However, had one failure to feed because of magazine that was poorly seated or came unseated because I inadvertently pushed the magazine release while firing. Either way it was my fault. But I did have one failure to feed with Federal HST for some unknown reason. Another problem: either the bottom of the trigger guard or the "safety trigger" abraded my trigger finger so badly that it started bleeding. I switched to my non-dominant hand and it cut that one, too--with just one shot. Maybe I just need to toughen up my trigger finger, or maybe Ruger needs to fix this.

Crash

[RossA]

Having owned a couple of .380s (a Colt Govt, and a Keltech P3AT) myself, and having a fired a number of others (Berettas, Bersas, Sigs, Grendels, Brownings, etc.), and having listened to/read complaints from others about their own .380s, it is my considered observation that, as a general class of guns, .380 pistols are finicky little poots that are not worth the trouble they cause their owners........ not when you can buy 9mms of virtually the same size that will run like a top, all day long.

The G43 is 1/4" longer, 1/8" taller, 0.08" wider, has a sight radius 1/10" longer, a barrel .14" longer, and weighs 4.2 oz more unloaded than a G42. Those are fairly insignificant dimensional differences, for a significantly more powerful cartridge, in a more reliable chambering. I do understand why people used to buy .380s. There few or no offerings in that size range for 9mm guns. But that hasn't been the case for a few years now as more and more single stack subcompact 9mm pistols entered the market. I honestly don't get why people still buy .380s. They aren't even that much easier to shoot.

But that's just me.

Nope, it's me, too. I have never owned a .380 and never wanted one for just the reasons you have stated. Now if a student comes to me and they already have one, I train them with whatever they are going to use.