Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

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Grundy1133
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Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#1

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:24 pm

So I've been toying with the idea of putting an apex trigger on my M&P because everyone hates the trigger and it takes roughly 7-9lbs of force. So i was asking my buddy about it and he said if you change the trigger out on that gun never carry it again. A lawyer will say you modified the gun to make it more deadly. and I responded with, well no, I'd be changing it out so that I will be able to defend myself more quickly and get a more accurate shot so I'll be less likely to miss. what are you guys' thoughts on modifying your carry gun?
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#2

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:29 pm

Don't carry skull and crossbones grips on your 1911. Other than that, do what you want. I often hear people recommend against light triggers on handguns, but I personally don't worry about it. If you are justified in using deadly force, the amount of force you put on the trigger to discharge your weapon will not be an issue. It can be an issue if you claim you fired accidentally, but your finger should not be on the trigger until you are willing to shoot.

I'm confident others will disagree.

Chas.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#3

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:30 pm

This isn’t legal advice, but it’s not likely to be much of an issue in proving self-defense. An eminent and immediate threat is an eminent and immediate threat; a 4-pound trigger pull makes as little difference as a 10-pound trigger pull. While this isn’t legal advice, the fact of the matter is a claim of justified shooting doesn’t hang on the gun that’s used – it hangs on the circumstances under which it was used.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#4

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:34 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Don't carry skull and crossbones grips on your 1911. Other than that, do what you want. I often hear people recommend against light triggers on handguns, but I personally don't worry about it. If you are justified in using deadly force, the amount of force you put on the trigger to discharge your weapon will not be an issue. It can be an issue if you claim you fired accidentally, but your finger should not be on the trigger until you are willing to shoot.

I'm confident others will disagree.

Chas.
precisely! that was my thinking. justified is justified regardless of what was used.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#5

Post by BBYC » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:37 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:. If you are justified in using deadly force, the amount of force you put on the trigger to discharge your weapon will not be an issue. It can be an issue if you claim you fired accidentally, but your finger should not be on the trigger until you are willing to shoot.
I agree, assuming you stay in Texas and the political climate doesn't change drastically here.

It varies by state, however Even in states with LTC reciprocity, there may not be similar presumptions of reasonableness written into the penal code.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#6

Post by TexasJohnBoy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:40 pm

Personally -- and this is my personal opinion -- I don't modify my carry weapon, and I do not carry hand loads. I don't want any prosecutor or attorney having even an inkling of "He wanted to be deadlier than necessary!"

I do not fault those who choose to put a lighter trigger on, however. As has already been stated, if your booger picker is off the bang lever until deadly force is justified.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#7

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:46 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:Personally -- and this is my personal opinion -- I don't modify my carry weapon, and I do not carry hand loads. I don't want any prosecutor or attorney having even an inkling of "He wanted to be deadlier than necessary!"

I do not fault those who choose to put a lighter trigger on, however. As has already been stated, if your booger picker is off the bang lever until deadly force is justified.
I just absolutely hate the factory trigger on the M&P (most people do from what i've seen) and if a different trigger can make my shots more accurate and have less a chance of hitting a bystander, then I don't see why it'd be a big deal especially as chas said justified is justified and like you both said, your booger picker should be off that trigger until youre ready to fire anyway lol.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#8

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:49 pm

BBYC wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:. If you are justified in using deadly force, the amount of force you put on the trigger to discharge your weapon will not be an issue. It can be an issue if you claim you fired accidentally, but your finger should not be on the trigger until you are willing to shoot.
I agree, assuming you stay in Texas and the political climate doesn't change drastically here.

It varies by state, however Even in states with LTC reciprocity, there may not be similar presumptions of reasonableness written into the penal code.
Well I plan to stay in texas as much as i can... Also i'm gonna be keeping the factory trigger in case as you said political climate ever does change here i'll still be able to go back to stock and have a little more peace of mind.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#9

Post by TexasJohnBoy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
TexasJohnBoy wrote:Personally -- and this is my personal opinion -- I don't modify my carry weapon, and I do not carry hand loads. I don't want any prosecutor or attorney having even an inkling of "He wanted to be deadlier than necessary!"

I do not fault those who choose to put a lighter trigger on, however. As has already been stated, if your booger picker is off the bang lever until deadly force is justified.
I just absolutely hate the factory trigger on the M&P (most people do from what i've seen) and if a different trigger can make my shots more accurate and have less a chance of hitting a bystander, then I don't see why it'd be a big deal especially as chas said justified is justified and like you both said, your booger picker should be off that trigger until youre ready to fire anyway lol.
*nod
Like I said, if you want to make a mod, I won't be one of these guys screaming at you about it.
My Shield trigger is good though, I have read it's better than the original M&P triggers. I've only shot the Shield 9 & full size M2.0 9, never really shot the 1.0s. I haven't shot the Shield M2.0 either...
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#10

Post by Middle Age Russ » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:10 pm

APEX hard sears (at the least) in all of our first generation M&Ps except for the .22 and the Bodyguard .380 (but then again, they are not exactly M&Ps in anything other than marketing parlance). A few of the triggers were relatively OK out of the box, but some weren't. The change in the trigger characteristics makes shooting these guns accurately much easier. That alone is a good reason to make the change since every round leaving the gun under any circumstances is my responsibility.
Last edited by Middle Age Russ on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#11

Post by oljames3 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:10 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
TexasJohnBoy wrote:Personally -- and this is my personal opinion -- I don't modify my carry weapon, and I do not carry hand loads. I don't want any prosecutor or attorney having even an inkling of "He wanted to be deadlier than necessary!"

I do not fault those who choose to put a lighter trigger on, however. As has already been stated, if your booger picker is off the bang lever until deadly force is justified.
I just absolutely hate the factory trigger on the M&P (most people do from what i've seen) and if a different trigger can make my shots more accurate and have less a chance of hitting a bystander, then I don't see why it'd be a big deal especially as chas said justified is justified and like you both said, your booger picker should be off that trigger until youre ready to fire anyway lol.
*nod
Like I said, if you want to make a mod, I won't be one of these guys screaming at you about it.
My Shield trigger is good though, I have read it's better than the original M&P triggers. I've only shot the Shield 9 & full size M2.0 9, never really shot the 1.0s. I haven't shot the Shield M2.0 either...
I've had my S&W M&P M2.0 for over a year. The trigger is fine. Mastering the fundamentals of shooting is essential. After using my M&P for a year, I replaced the stock sights with Dawson Precision fiber optic sights. For $95, I have sights that work better with my old eyes. The new sights did not magically make me a better shooter, just enabled me to better employ the skills I had already developed.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#12

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Don't carry skull and crossbones grips on your 1911. Other than that, do what you want. I often hear people recommend against light triggers on handguns, but I personally don't worry about it. If you are justified in using deadly force, the amount of force you put on the trigger to discharge your weapon will not be an issue. It can be an issue if you claim you fired accidentally, but your finger should not be on the trigger until you are willing to shoot.

I'm confident others will disagree.

Chas.
:iagree: Although I also think others will disagree.

The only time I could see this being an issue is if you are claiming an AD. If you intentionally shoot someone, you had better be able to prove that it was justified. But if it is justified then the fact that you used a gun with a 2 pound trigger pull that was loaded with "killer" hollow points should not make a difference.

I also agree on not putting a skull and crossbones or a confederate flag, or something else, on you gun. That also shouldn't matter, but I could see someone arguing that it shows you are the kind of person who is looking for a fight, and may work against your argument of justified self defense, especially in cases where the victim or witnesses are claiming that you provoked / escalated the conflict.
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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#13

Post by jason812 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:31 pm

I have changed the striker spring on my P99QA to reduce the trigger pull from 8lbs to 6lbs. This is my car pistol and I carry it at lunch or running an errand on the way home from work.

When I get around to taking them apart, I'm going to take the sear assembly, trigger, and striker out of my PPQ and see if it works in the P99. From research, looking up part numbers, and comparing the frames, these parts should drop in. If it does work, I will order a new sear assembly and striker (already have a trigger) for a PPQ and make the change permanent.

Do what you want. As others have said, if you intend to fire, it doesn't matter what you have in your hand as long as it was justified.


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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#14

Post by rotor » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:39 pm

Some states like Massachusetts actually have trigger laws that make it illegal to sell handguns with a light trigger. Don't buy a used Massachusetts gun. I guess it potentially could be a problem depending on where you are. There is the case of a guy convicted for shooting someone using a 10mm pistol as that was too powerful a weapon. New Jersey bans hollow points as too lethal.
I personally would not want a very light trigger on a carry gun. On the other hand I have a S&W .380 bodyguard with a 13# trigger pull that definitely needs to be lighter. I guess that in an Adrenalin rush situation it won't matter.
When it comes to prosecuting attorneys though if you are ever involved, who knows what dirty tricks they will use to convict you.

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Re: Modifications to your carry gun. Thoughts?

#15

Post by LDB415 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:40 pm

I agree with Charles and the others and I also think there are any number of lawyers who will use anything against you whether legitimate or not. So, while logically it makes no difference in practice it might. You have to decide what's right for you.
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