Night shooting, my experience...

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SigM4
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Night shooting, my experience...

#1

Post by SigM4 »

Not being a LEO or otherwise exposed to training that might include shooting at night I can say that my experiences with night shooting have always been informal and somewhat rural (shooting the skunk that was living under our porch one summer with a 20 gauge at about 9:30 at night when I saw him out by the creek). That said, unless you have your own range or attend training that focus on night shootings the opportunities are somewhat limited.

To that end several months ago my home shooting club started a monthly night shoot for members (and their guests) to come out for a structured evening of shooting in a low light/no light environment. What follows is my quick summary of what I experienced last night.

First thing to note is that it's not a completion, rather it's an opportunity to learn what happens at night when you fire a gun, test out your equipment and yourself, and gain some practical knowledge with which to move forward.

The focus throughout the entire shoot was on safety, the shoot officers did a great job instilling that and at the same time trying to make it enjoyable for all involved. For that reason shooting from a holster was not allowed, however I do hope that as this event gains traction we might be able to incorporate it for repeat shooters who have proven their ability at prior shoots. For the time being though I understand the club's position.

Meeting time was 5pm, this gave enough time to get stuff set up before sundown and allowed for some conversation between the shooters and the shoot officers. At this time the officers went over the rules and had a thorough safety brief. For last nights event we were shooting both pistols and shotgun. There were four of us shooting pistols and five shooting shotguns. We decided upfront that we would shoot the pistol round twice, the first time with night sights (NS) only, and the second with lights, lasers, etc. A round was 50 shots from three distances; 20 rounds from 3 yds, 20 rounds from 7 yds, and 10 rounds from 12-13 yds. Shotgun would be 12 shots per round, four from each of the three distances.

First up was shotgun, I was shooting my Benelli Supernova Tactical. Load two rounds with two more either on the gun or in a pocket, on the fire command fire two rounds, reload and fire two more. Being behind a shotgun at night (in my limited experience) is always fun, but with a short barrel it's even more fun. Not being able to see any sights just compounds the issue. On top of this it was evident very quickly that I need to work on my reload skills with a shotgun. It's not something that I've ever spent much time doing (the shotgun isn't my primary HD weapon); regardless if I even think I might use one in the future I need to get this down. Also, the need to be able to carry rounds in a known orientation on the gun is much clearer now. Trying to dig into your pocket for a reload is not something I ever want to have to do if I'm under stress. Despite all this my hits were decent and I feel confident that I could stop a threat, but again it's not my primary choice. I'll be looking into Ghost Ring NS and a sidesaddle for the gun.

Next up was the pistol portion. For this first round I decided to use my P30 equipped with Mepro NS in 9mm shooting my own reloads. For this portion you were paired up with another shooter; while one person shot the other person coached/attended the shooter. What does that mean? Each person had a small two-tray caddy that I call a cleaning/custodial caddy. On one side you put your box of ammo (ammo had to be in a box) and on the other you put your unloaded gun with a chamber flag. The caddies had reflective tape on each end, red was the muzzle end and was to stay pointed downrange, and white was the rear end. Once on the line the shooter retrieved his pistol and kept it pointed down range, the coach would then load the mag. Each stage was a five round stage, so the coach was loading five at a time; because the ammo had to be in a box/sleeve it made it easy to verify where in the round you were and for the shoot officers to do spot checks. Doing it this way allowed the shooter to focus on keeping the gun down range while the coach was fumbling with rounds in the dark.

Once the mag was loaded on the shoot officers instruction it was handed to the shooter and the gun was charged and held at low ready. For each five shot stage there were commands of various strings of fire and round count. Being night it amounted to more or less body shots and head shots within a given time frame. None of the times were especially difficult to meet but you did have that little internal clock telling you not to dawdle. As with the shotgun the flash of a round going off in almost complete darkness is something that I've had very little exposure to. To be able to do it in a controlled environment was great. Pushing back through the distances the shots got a little tougher to see as the target faded into the black background. At the end of it though I was very happy with my results.

For the second round we went full lights/lasers/red dots etc. This time I was shooting a brand new VP9 (full FDE) with a Surefire X300U. Unlike my P30 this one does not (currently) have NS but instead has the HK luminous sights. I will say I was shocked at how much glow they had after coming out of the shooting bag already. However, prior to the round I hit them with my handheld light and that really gave them a charge that lasted through the entire round. Again as before we shot at the three distances with various courses of fire chosen randomly by the shoot officers. Again I was pleased with my abilities and the results. Shooting with a light was something I had never done before and just reinforced my choice to have one on any HD weapon I may plan to use. At the same time I am very seriously considering adding a Streetlight TLR-7 to my EDC (P30sk) as it greatly increased the ability to see and recognize your target (duh).

The other thing that this event demonstrated to me was the need to upgrade the VP9 and another pistol that occasionally makes it into rotation with NS, not because the HK luminous sights are bad, far from it actually, but because more likely than not if I ever need a gun it will get pulled from the bedside safe or holster with no chance to charge the sights as I did last night. For that reason I want NS that are ready to go.

All in all a very enjoyable and educational experience. I'm grateful that my club has added this to the list of sponsored events and will take the opportunity to make it out for one again in the future. Also plan to bring a couple guests next time as I think the chance to shoot at night was eye opening enough that everyone should make an effort to do so.

Below are some gratuitous pics of guns/targets.

New VP9 (full FDE) w/ Surefire X300U
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Targets VP9 w/light on the left, P30 NS only on the right
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Deitz83
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

#2

Post by Deitz83 »

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like it was fun and great learning experience.
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Lena
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

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Post by Lena »

My favorite matches are low light, the best one I ever shot was 500 rounds over 3 days in Kentucky 200 Fri-Sat night 100 Sunday daytime, we shot 1 stage in light with a walk through of all then ate supper you bring your steak they had rest then shoot all in natural terrain at steel it either falls or a miss, match was a 2 gun at a time with 3 shot over 3 days pistol carbine shotgun, all hand held lights (rule) you chose your ammo load of 200 rounds for the night #1 was pistol carbine, #2 was pistol shotgun #3 shotgun carbine you choose ammo loading to carry 200 200 100, drop something and it is gone from match run out of ammo your finished, you choose the 1 of two weapons to fire at targets, light goes out sorry your finished carry spare, all dropped mags picked up for you, great door prizes Surefire lights also free batteries to shooters. By far the most enjoyable and fun match I ever shot, huge turn out. All shots either hit or miss no points down, rules "SOLVE THE PROBLEM" All stages had fault line of yellow plastic ribbon. 2 safety officers and timer walked with you pass or not see a target no reshoot when crossed the yellow line. NO RUNNUNG. Time started when you crossed the 1st line had 2 all targets left or right of you or both no 180. Purpose of fault line.
Door prizes for all, meals daily & great match $150 for all. THE BEST EVER!

One stage shot with road flares only, all shooters had glow sticks on front and back. Weapon break sorry, run out of ammo same, light quit no spare sorry, pee stops given ! You carry as you wish any way you wish just solve the problem load when needed to. No shoulder or cross draw allowed.
Being to gung ho got a warning 2 your gone, running the same, had 1 shooter in a wheel chair no special rules for him. If you needed something not carried sorry, para medics on site. Fair to all.

Equipment used, Rock River AR, Para P14 over my normal Glock 17 due to all steel targets, FN SLP 12 ga'
Fed 55 gr 5.56 30- 40 round mags 40 in carbine 2 30's on belt with suspenders
Blaser brass 45 acp 230's 7 mags with top off for 99 rounds
Federal 12 ga 7-1/2 value pak
I finished in the top 15 shooters from over 50 entered. Thar was before my surgery though.

This was really an easy match the planning was the key to it lucky I had some very good coaching from prior shooters an what to carry and how to pack it.
I never had a steel not fall from hit on any shot at several that shot 9mm sure did so. Those that shot well with the 9's all shot 147 gr ammo.
No reload ammo allowed. All shooters had an equipment check.
No talking to safety officers or timer other that a nod your ready UNLESS a safety on physical reasons.
One shooter wore tennis shoes and one came off a slip on, he finished with just 1 on they got it for him and returned when finished.

Ft Cambell Ky.
Stay Safe
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C-dub
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

#4

Post by C-dub »

I would recommend getting the TLR-7 for your smaller handgun. I'm considering getting one for my G30SF.

I have been carrying my G21SF with a TLR-1 for almost 2 years now. I made this choice after shooting a couple night matches at my club and seeing the different between using a hand held flashlight versus a weapon mounted light. The only holster I could find that would accommodate this setup was a Safariland model. (7377) I would have gotten one for my G30SF first, but they didn't have one then. They do now and that's why I'm thinking about getting the TLR-7 and then another 7377 or 7376 for the G30SF.

The distances that most self defense engagements occur in may not make much difference, but you never know, right?

One other thing I remember from my night matches is that I don't think I even noticed the muzzle flashes. We even got to do one stage with a rifle or carbine if you had a light mounted. I don't recall noticing the muzzle flashes then either.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
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SigM4
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

#5

Post by SigM4 »

C-dub wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:46 pm The only holster I could find that would accommodate this setup was a Safariland model. (7377) I would have gotten one for my G30SF first, but they didn't have one then. They do now and that's why I'm thinking about getting the TLR-7 and then another 7377 or 7376 for the G30SF.

...

One other thing I remember from my night matches is that I don't think I even noticed the muzzle flashes. We even got to do one stage with a rifle or carbine if you had a light mounted. I don't recall noticing the muzzle flashes then either.
I have this same holster for the P30/VP9. I’m not sure I’d ever carry with it as it sits too far off my body to be easily concealable, but then again I may just need to work on the clothing I’m wearing.

To your point about muzzle flash, you’re very right and it’s something I failed to make mention of. I was expecting a much brighter more blinding light. I barely even noticed it the first couple shots; I was aware of it while shooting, but it did nothing to hinder my follow up shots. Again, a very eye opening and educational night.
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.
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Paladin
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

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Post by Paladin »

Great practice and write up! :cheers2:
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Lena
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

#7

Post by Lena »

Speaking of muzzle flashes I shot an indoor low light match with all hand held lights allowed only to be fair to all with my Glock 32 with issued Ranger T 125's yes there was a flash and huge report the 1st day I got it that night, after 100+ trouble free shots carried it the next day and will tomorrow again all these years later, not 1 issue at all. Wed night matches years ago at Targetmaster Garland. Shot several more matches with it, once I took friends and we had a all 357 SIG squad all with factory ammo indoors. Several more outdoor over the years with it all 100%.
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Re: Night shooting, my experience...

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Post by C-dub »

SigM4 wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:56 am
C-dub wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:46 pm The only holster I could find that would accommodate this setup was a Safariland model. (7377) I would have gotten one for my G30SF first, but they didn't have one then. They do now and that's why I'm thinking about getting the TLR-7 and then another 7377 or 7376 for the G30SF.

...

One other thing I remember from my night matches is that I don't think I even noticed the muzzle flashes. We even got to do one stage with a rifle or carbine if you had a light mounted. I don't recall noticing the muzzle flashes then either.
I have this same holster for the P30/VP9. I’m not sure I’d ever carry with it as it sits too far off my body to be easily concealable, but then again I may just need to work on the clothing I’m wearing.

To your point about muzzle flash, you’re very right and it’s something I failed to make mention of. I was expecting a much brighter more blinding light. I barely even noticed it the first couple shots; I was aware of it while shooting, but it did nothing to hinder my follow up shots. Again, a very eye opening and educational night.
I've been carrying a G21SF with a TLR1 light attached in this holster for almost 2 years.

I think many peoples' perception of what others will notice is a bit ... umm, ...overestimated or over imagined. For evidence, have you perused any of the threads about forum members OCing? Anyway, I'm of average build, 6', 200 lbs, and am unaware of anyone noticing my glock/brick on my hip or double mag carrier on the other hip. At least I haven't had any SWAT teams prone me yet.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
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