Switching to wheel guns this year

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boxermoose
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#31

Post by boxermoose » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm
boxermoose wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:07 pm
Just picked up a nifty Kimber K6 for pocket and cross draw carry. Sweet little wheelie
Those are nice looking guns. Which version did you get?
The base model and added the Hogue G10 grips as they provide 3/8” longer grip..pinky rest.

Once you get used to the trigger it is surprising accurate, and a read blast to shoot.

357 wasnt to bad to shoot but 38+p is a pussycat

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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#32

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 pm

boxermoose wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm
boxermoose wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:07 pm
Just picked up a nifty Kimber K6 for pocket and cross draw carry. Sweet little wheelie
Those are nice looking guns. Which version did you get?
The base model and added the Hogue G10 grips as they provide 3/8” longer grip..pinky rest.

Once you get used to the trigger it is surprising accurate, and a read blast to shoot.

357 wasnt to bad to shoot but 38+p is a pussycat
I read on their website that it has a “no stack” trigger. I take that to mean that it doesn’t stack up before the break? That reminds me of our old Kahr pistols.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.


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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#33

Post by boxermoose » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:08 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 pm
boxermoose wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm
boxermoose wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:07 pm
Just picked up a nifty Kimber K6 for pocket and cross draw carry. Sweet little wheelie
Those are nice looking guns. Which version did you get?
The base model and added the Hogue G10 grips as they provide 3/8” longer grip..pinky rest.

Once you get used to the trigger it is surprising accurate, and a read blast to shoot.

357 wasnt to bad to shoot but 38+p is a pussycat
I read on their website that it has a “no stack” trigger. I take that to mean that it doesn’t stack up before the break? That reminds me of our old Kahr pistols.
Trigger is very linear, of course as it’s DAO it’s not light but is predictable

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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#34

Post by 74novaman » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:32 pm

Image

I was the only revolver shooter today.

Finished 14th out of 16 shooters, so I beat a couple of bottom feeders.

Even finished 5th overall on one stage, but taking 10+ seconds to clear a case that slipped under the star on another stage will eat up some time, as will a few hits to hard cover instead of the target.

I finished stronger than I started though (my 5th overall stage run was the last stage of the day for me), so I'm happy with improvements throughout, and I got better each stage. First match in a few months, first match ever with a revolver. It'll be a good benchmark to compare to in a year and see what I've improved on.

I'll edit/upload video tomorrow.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#35

Post by 74novaman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:48 am

Funny story from the match: I had a nice, ~13ish second reload on the first stage of the match yesterday. It was on my SECOND reshoot of that stage. First time through, the swinging no shoot target fell off. Second time, the activator steel popper for the swinger took a solid hit and failed to fall, so we stopped and had to reset. Every case extracted perfectly on both of those runs. But on the third run, when the stage equipment was all finally working right, one case got stuck under the star. And of course, I cut my fingernails yesterday. So I've got next to no nail to get under the damn rim and I'm sitting there for 10 or more seconds trying to first get the case out of the cylinder, then get it past the star before I can reload.

It couldn't have happened on either of the runs that didn't count, naturally. This is the kind of luck I tend to have.

Video time, so we can all analyze my failures together.



Some things I noticed:

1) On the very first cylinder through the gun, I short stroked the trigger and rotated the cylinder without moving the hammer. Trying to "ride the reset" on a revolver is a really bad idea. Thankfully, it's the only time I did that all day.
2) You need more "space" to reload revolvers than semis. On stage 5, I bonked the barrel wall when moving the gun from muzzle up to eject cases to muzzle down to reload it. This is not something I've had to worry about before shooting semis. It also showed up again on stage 6 when I got too close to a wall and had to bring the gun into my chest to get around it. I need to give myself more distance around barriers, mostly for reloads but also just to eliminate unnecessary movement when transitioning around them like on stage 6.
3) There were a couple of times I missed the ejector rod with my index finger during the reload and had to try again. Since I'd like to stick with the weak hand reload for now, I think I'm going to practice hitting the rod with two fingers on my weak hand instead of just one to give me a little more room for error. Inexperienced revolver shooter problems.
4) Round counts, round counts, round counts. How hard is it to count to 6? Pretty hard, apparently. Multiple times I pulled the trigger a 7th time for a click instead of a bang, wasting time. I need to continue working on my stage planning and my awareness of what I've already shot so I'm not surprised as often by an empty gun.
5) on a camera note, I like the new GoPro but I need to angle it down a bit more so I can hopefully get my reloads on film in the future as well. They're a big part of the revolver shooting game and if I can't see them I don't know what I need to improve on with them.

To give myself a few kudos as well so this isn't just a self stomp fest: Despite two reshoots and a 13 second reload when a case got stuck under the star on stage 1, I actually improved steadily throughout the rest of the match. Usually I shoot on a bit of a bell curve, with my first stage being slightly suboptimum, 2-3 or 4 being decent, and 5-6 and beyond going down hill as I become mentally fatigued. I've been working not just on dry fires and reloads but my mental game as well, and I think it is starting to show. My best stage of the day was the very last stage I shot. That's new, and I like it.

I'm also throwing up a quick comparison video of my first cylinder on stage 1 and my first cylinder on stage 6. I think there's a noticeable difference in my confidence with the DA trigger in matches in just a few stages. First cylinder had a lot of hesitation and trigger staging that was gone by the end of the match. Hoping to see that improvement continue.

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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#36

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:05 pm

74novaman, a trio of questions since it was difficult to see what you were doing during reloads....

1. I assume you were using speedloaders and not moon clips?

2. When you dump the spent brass, are you shucking it onto the ground, or into a pouch of some kind?

3. If you’re shucking that brass onto the ground, are you permitted to walk back through the course of fire and retrieve your brass, or is brass just “a cost of doing business”?
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.

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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#37

Post by 74novaman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:09 pm

Yeah, new camera to blame here. I need to adjust the angle and see if I can get the reloads in the picture too.

I was using Safariland Comp3 speedloaders. They're great loaders, like them a lot.

I'll be using moon clips in USPSA with the 627, but it's easier to shoot IDPA with a 6 shot since you're limited to 6 rounds in the gun no matter how many it holds, so I bought that used Model 10 specifically for IDPA. Those lovely low profile gutter and post sights make the long shots extra fun. :biggrinjester:

I'm dropping both the cases and the speedloaders on the ground. Whether or not you can collect brass depends on the match/range you shoot at, and people are going to get grumpy if you're busy exclusively being a brass squirrel instead of helping score/tape/reset during the match, but as long as you're helping out the squad in between shooters most places don't seem to care if you collect brass.

ETA: Moon clips are a bit of a different deal. You can bet I'm collecting every single moon clip on every single stage. Stupid things are too expensive to just abandon.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#38

Post by 74novaman » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:02 pm

Trying out some VZ grips on the 627. I've always liked them on my 1911s and CZs. Like them so far on the wheel gun too.

Image

This is the steel match I'm shooting on Saturday.



I forgot there are 9 shot arrays sometimes. That should be fun with an 8 shot wheel gun. :biggrinjester:
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#39

Post by 74novaman » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 am

Shot a falling steel match this weekend with the 627. It was below freezing and raining, so not a lot of folks came out. We had 18 shooters. I finished 13th, and was the only revolver shooter.

First match with this gun. Like my first match with the M10 from earlier, everything got smoother on later stages than it was on early stages. Less misses, less clicks on an empty cylinder, etc.

Match was 3 stages, with each stage being run twice. The first time, you have a 30 second par time. Every piece of steel left up at the end of 30 seconds adds 2 seconds to your time. Then you repeat all 3 stages with no par time, but every piece of steel left up at the end adds 5 seconds to your time.

There were also several 9 shot arrays at this match, which is fun with an 8 shot wheel gun. That forced some different stage planning. For the 30 second par time stages, there were several times it was beneficial to shoot 8, reload while moving to the next position, and keep shooting rather than waste time on a static reload to clear one more target that was only adding two seconds. However, since standing steel added 5 seconds in the no par time stages, that wasn't worth it and forced some reloads at awkward times and positions. That's really obvious on the 2nd and 5th stages (blue targets had to be engaged in blue box, yellow in yellow, both 9 shot arrays). The par time run, I shot 8 in each box, reloaded on the move and left targets standing once one cylinder was done. It forced weird reloads in the no par time stage though, because shooting 8 and moving would have added 10 seconds minimum to my stage time for those two standing targets (and that's being optimistic about shooting the other 8
clean).

I still had a few times where I couldn't count to 8, but they were more often at the beginning of the match than the end, which I'll take as a positive. One interesting thing to note was that I missed my count several times on the moving targets, even at the end. Humans are poor multitaskers, and when I was concentrating on the moving targets, I lost track of rounds fired.

Moonclips are easier than speed loaders, but my reloads still need some work.

Honestly, I was under prepared for this match. I had been doing some dryfire/reload work at home, but I haven't been to the range since I shot an IDPA match two weeks ago. I've got lots of excuses (7 month old at home so limited free time, and what free time I do have I'm mostly using to run because I'm signed up for a half marathon in April and my fat ass isn't in shape for it, etc), but the lack of range time is evident in the video. Nothing is as smooth as it should be, because I haven't invested the practice time.

I'm making some plans/arrangements to free up a little more time to at least get to the range once a week in addition to upping my dry fire time. It's not ideal, but unfortunately getting better at shooting isn't my only responsibility right now. Still happy to have this as a benchmark to compare match video from late this year/early next year to and see what progress I've made.

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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#40

Post by 74novaman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:35 pm

Someone asked elsewhere if I could provide a comparison shot of all the wheel guns I'm using this year, so I'm copying it over here too to keep the thread alive until I can get to the range and do something actually interesting.

Image

From top to bottom:
S&W 627 (4 inch N frame, 8 shot cylinder)
S&W Model 10 (4 inch K frame, 6 shot)
S&W 586 L Comp (3" L frame, 7 shot)
Ruger LCRx (3", 5 shot)
S&W 637 (1.8" J frame, 5 shot)

Side shots don't tell the whole story with revolvers though. When you add capacity to a revolver, you add some bulk. The following paired guns have identical barrel lengths and similar grip lengths, but the cylinder size is dramatically different.

Image

On the left is the 8 shot 627, on the right is the 6 shot Model 10

Image

On the left is the 7 shot 586, on the right is the Ruger LCRx 5 shot.

Weights (all guns loaded to capacity with 158 gr ammo, 627 and 586 loaded with moon clips):
627: 46.7 oz
586: 39.9 oz
M10: 38 oz
LCRx: 18.2 oz
637: 17.8 oz

Just for fun, here's a similar size and weight gun to the 627:

Image

It only weighs 0.3 oz more than the 627. Is about the same size. Oh, but it has a red dot, light, magwell and 18 rounds of 9mm on board.

Just for some perspective.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#41

Post by twomillenium » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:48 pm

Nice video, I could not help thinking that the target stand made the silhouette target look as if it had it's hands up! :lol::
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#42

Post by 74novaman » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:39 pm

Finally, FINALLY got back out to the range today. It shows that I haven’t been shooting or dry firing much in the last month, everything was rusty and bad.

I’ll get videos up tomorrow, but I shot some of my standards drills with the 627 today.

5 second standards: failed at 15y
Reloads: shot a 12.8x at 7 yards
500 point aggregate: scored a 407. Last time I shot the drill with a CZ I shot a 437, so my scores are down. As to be expected when I haven’t shot any practice or matches in a month. Damn I hate being this rusty.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#43

Post by 74novaman » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:14 pm

I hope no one is bored enough to actually watch this. I hesitated to even post it, for several reasons.

1) It's just drills, not fun match video, and drills are boring to shoot, much less watch someone else shoot.
2) I cut it down and even sped up a few parts, and it's still 15 minutes long.
3) I haven't shot a match, practice, or even much dry fire in the last month. It shows. This is not "look at how awesome I am" video. This is "watch how much practice matters, kids, because if you don't practice you'll shoot this badly!" type video.

But I wanted to document where I'm starting from, and put numbers on drills so I could measure improvement or lack thereof.



5 second drill was shot several times, and I can clear 7 and 10 yards consistently with the 627. I failed both times at the 15 yard mark, once on the strong hand only portion, once with a two hand shot from the draw.

Reload drill was incredibly sloppy. I got to experience a new revolver shooting error I haven't committed before: not closing the cylinder fully on the reload. My fastest clean run was 12.89 seconds to draw, shoot 8, reload, shoot another 8. Slow.

500 point aggregate was an interesting one. On video, I mistakenly read a 238 as a 235 and deduct 3 points from my score in error. I also managed to miss a double in the 7 zone, and since I had two other shots off target completely assumed my missing shot was also a miss until I got home and was bringing targets into the house. Here's the double that looked like a single to me on the range, so my actual score on the 500 point aggregate was a 417. Not great, but better than the 407 I thought I had shot yesterday.

Image

Dry fire emphasis for the week: strong hand and weak hand only shooting. My mediocre one hand shooting kills my 500 point drill score and my chances of moving 5 second standards back to 20 yards. There are lots of things I need to improve on and my reloads were really bad this week too, but I'm going to work on the one handed dry fire for this week, and probably focus heavily on reloads next week.

Another thing I need to do better is take the opportunities during drills like this to practice my reloads. Yeah, the 10 shot strings on the 500 point drill aren't timed. No, I don't need to work on a fast reload during the 5 second drill. But I saw a lot of wasted opportunities to do so while watching this video. Given how limited my practice time has been lately, why on earth am I not taking every opportunity while at the range to work on something? Because I'm not a smart man, that's why. Goal for next range session where I'm shooting a lot of drills: take the opportunities given to work on ancillary skills.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#44

Post by dlh » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:41 pm

I love to shoot my wheel guns at the range but my every day carry is my Glock 26. Occasionally I carry my Ruger LCR in 38 special plus P.
My Glock 26 with an x-grip will hold a Glock 19 magazine and give me fifteen rounds as opposed to the five rounds in the Ruger LCR.
Maybe it is because I practice with it more but my Glock 26 is more accurate (for me) than my Ruger LCR.
One advantage to the Ruger LCR is that it is lighter and smaller than the Glock 26 making carry slightly easier.
However, on balance, I am sticking with my semi-automatic for every day carry.
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Re: Switching to wheel guns this year

#45

Post by Deltaboy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:20 pm

I carry a 442 Air Weight Smith and Wesson!
I 'm just an Ole Sinner saved by Grace and Smith & Wesson.

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