Deadly force to protect livestock?

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K.Mooneyham
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Deadly force to protect livestock?

#1

Post by K.Mooneyham » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:48 pm

Can someone tell me if it is LEGAL (I don't mean would you) shoot to protect livestock from being killed by a human being? I read a story about someone gut-shooting several miniature donkies in Mississippi, and I wasn't sure how Texas law covers that. Seems pretty heinous to kill animals that way, much less the destruction of someone's property.

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Jusme
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#2

Post by Jusme » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:24 pm

IANAL, but livestock should be treated, as any other property. Since, if someone is trying to kill it, and dead livestock can't be recovered, I would think deadly force would be justified. They use to hang rustlers, so I doubt any prosecutor would try to bring charges.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#3

Post by anygunanywhere » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:33 pm

Based on my friendship with multiple West Texas cattle and sheep ranchers, I can guarantee someone would get shot, multiple times, and no charges would be filed.

I have pictures of armed poachers on my place. Game warden told me if I encountered armed poachers to do what was necessary, call him, and he would come over and help with the mess.
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#4

Post by Redneck_Buddha » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Play with the bull and get the horns.

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RoyGBiv
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#5

Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:24 pm

Jusme wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:24 pm
IANAL, but livestock should be treated, as any other property. Since, if someone is trying to kill it, and dead livestock can't be recovered, I would think deadly force would be justified. They use to hang rustlers, so I doubt any prosecutor would try to bring charges.
I believe this assessment, with a caveat, is correct, but, I am not a lawyer. Just my opinion.

The caveat is whether killing livestock is considered criminal mischief (deadly force only justified during the nighttime) or agg robbery. ??

Looking at PC 42.092, Cruelty to Livestock, I don't believe this PC applies to the question asked.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/SOTW ... m/PE.9.htm
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#6

Post by cheezit » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:08 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:48 pm
Can someone tell me if it is LEGAL (I don't mean would you) shoot to protect livestock from being killed by a human being? I read a story about someone gut-shooting several miniature donkies in Mississippi, and I wasn't sure how Texas law covers that. Seems pretty heinous to kill animals that way, much less the destruction of someone's property.
This isn't the first time this guy has had issues, someone doesn't like him.

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Jusme
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#7

Post by Jusme » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:14 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:24 pm
Jusme wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:24 pm
IANAL, but livestock should be treated, as any other property. Since, if someone is trying to kill it, and dead livestock can't be recovered, I would think deadly force would be justified. They use to hang rustlers, so I doubt any prosecutor would try to bring charges.
I believe this assessment, with a caveat, is correct, but, I am not a lawyer. Just my opinion.

The caveat is whether killing livestock is considered criminal mischief (deadly force only justified during the nighttime) or agg robbery. ??

Looking at PC 42.092, Cruelty to Livestock, I don't believe this PC applies to the question asked.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/SOTW ... m/PE.9.htm
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

This.
I was referring to the section 3 (A) that you posted, which would be, if someone was shooting livestock, then the owner would reasonably believe that they could not be recovered or protected by any other means. I don't know if that would be considered criminal mischief, but I would be willing to bet, that any livestock owner would be no billed, even if he was protecting his livestock at high noon. And I would also bet, that anyone who filed suit over being shot, would have a difficult time finding a sypathetic judge, or jury, to rule in their favor. I know how I would vote if I were on such a jury. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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bblhd672
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#8

Post by bblhd672 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:01 pm

PC 28.03 Criminal Mischief
(a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;

Would livestock be considered tangible property?

Further down in PC 28.03 it talks about the charges of firearms used to kill or injure cattle, which makes it a 3rd degree felony.
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#9

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:41 pm

I was told by a Ranch Foreman that a lot of poaching and cattle rustling has mafia ties, he said there is serious money being made by these activities and that the people doing it will kill you in a heartbeat! He said treat them as is they are convicted murders!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention


Topic author
K.Mooneyham
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#10

Post by K.Mooneyham » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:13 pm

cheezit wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:08 pm
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:48 pm
Can someone tell me if it is LEGAL (I don't mean would you) shoot to protect livestock from being killed by a human being? I read a story about someone gut-shooting several miniature donkies in Mississippi, and I wasn't sure how Texas law covers that. Seems pretty heinous to kill animals that way, much less the destruction of someone's property.
This isn't the first time this guy has had issues, someone doesn't like him.
That guy might be the biggest jerk in the world, but still, gut-shooting animals like that, well that bothers me quite a bit. I don't personally own livestock, but since I live in a rural area I wondered if it was justifiable/defense-to-prosecution to use deadly force to protect livestock, called out specifically in the PC.


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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#11

Post by WTR » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:27 pm

It is illegal to shoot a neighbors Bull even if he kills your Bull on your own property . I cannot imagine killing a human for killing your livestock would be acceptable. Not that I agree with that sentiment .


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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#12

Post by crazy2medic » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 pm

I would think the afore mentioned bull owner owes somebody a new bull!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention


WTR
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Re: Deadly force to protect livestock?

#13

Post by WTR » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:36 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 pm
I would think the afore mentioned bull owner owes somebody a new bull!
Bull was not killed. Scraped up a bit. Good 5 wire fence ruined. Surprisingly, not much done to the scum neighbor.

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