OWB Retension preference

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1


Topic author
Tex1961
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:11 am
Location: Frisco, Texas

OWB Retension preference

#1

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:34 am

I wanted to get some opinions from you guys. that OC....

I've strictly been 100% IWC since I got my LTC, but have been considering OWB. Currently I run a S&W Shield with an Alien Gear Holster.... If I were to switch to OC, I would most likely change holsters as I'm not overly fond of AG holsters for OWB.... I'm also not opposed to switching to a different pistol either....

That being said, I'm curious as to what you guys that OC use and what retention level (if any) would you recommend... I would also like to mention that I probably would only OWB during the cooler months when I would be wearing a jacket... This also does include Church where I have usher duties and am part of our security team.... I don't know if OWB with a jacket VS IWB with shirt tucked in and jacket would be any difference on draw time or not... Really just looking for thoughts....

Please, no arguments on IWB VS OWB... This post is strictly for asking OWB retention choices and holsters.....

Thanks
Mike Troncalli
Owner and operator of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving"
and Certified gun nut. :txflag:

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM


Rob72
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:08 am
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: OWB Retension preference

#2

Post by Rob72 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:42 am



Safariland ALS has been around for quite a long time, with good reason.

User avatar

RPBrown
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 4571
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:56 am
Location: Irving, Texas

Re: OWB Retension preference

#3

Post by RPBrown » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:59 am

1A46DBCB-8258-4DAD-A94D-49E88AF88069.png
This with a good gun belt which is a must no matter what holster you use
NRA-Benefactor Life member
TSRA-Life member
Image

User avatar

Lynyrd
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1450
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:20 am
Location: East Texas

Re: OWB Retension preference

#4

Post by Lynyrd » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:11 am

I carry OWB most of the time. I have retention holsters, and I have a couple of holsters with no retention. If I am OC, I prefer retention. But when I am CC I prefer no retention. The tragedy at White Settlement illustrates just how important a fast draw is. Retention slows me down. Nut much, but maybe too much in the wrong situation.

Just something to think about.
Do what you say you're gonna do.

User avatar

Jusme
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5090
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:23 pm
Location: Johnson County, Texas

Re: OWB Retension preference

#5

Post by Jusme » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:33 am

You stated that you would only be carrying OWB with a jacket covering. If you don’t plan to OC, retention level, shouldn’t be a major issue. In fact, in my opinion, clearing a cover garment, during the draw, is already one motion. The addition of retention defeating motions, will only delay, your draw more.
I carry a DeSantis leather holster, with a thumb break, that I carry when only covering with a jacket. I carry my keys in my right hand pocket to make moving my jacket easier. In warmer months, I carry a simple kydex belt slide. I cover with only an untucked shirt, which takes slightly more effort to clear, and I don’t want any added retention to further slow my draw. YMMV
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Topic author
Tex1961
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:11 am
Location: Frisco, Texas

Re: OWB Retension preference

#6

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:11 pm

Jusme wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:33 am
You stated that you would only be carrying OWB with a jacket covering. If you don’t plan to OC, retention level, shouldn’t be a major issue. In fact, in my opinion, clearing a cover garment, during the draw, is already one motion. The addition of retention defeating motions, will only delay, your draw more.
I carry a DeSantis leather holster, with a thumb break, that I carry when only covering with a jacket. I carry my keys in my right hand pocket to make moving my jacket easier. In warmer months, I carry a simple kydex belt slide. I cover with only an untucked shirt, which takes slightly more effort to clear, and I don’t want any added retention to further slow my draw. YMMV
I don't know why that thought didn't enter my brain... That makes most sense.. Why have retention if I have a jacket covering.... This really is more for my time spent in church where I will have my suit jacket on.....
Mike Troncalli
Owner and operator of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving"
and Certified gun nut. :txflag:

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM


cirus
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: OWB Retension preference

#7

Post by cirus » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:30 pm

I don't open carry but I do only carry owb. Don't care for iwb. My shirt is always untucked which means I'm always armed even at church. If my pants fit snug enough I'll use a Safariland paddle if not a belt and leather holster from DM Bullard. If I'm forced to tuck in I'll wear a tactical shirt underneath with the smallest auto I have.

User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: OWB Retension preference

#8

Post by oljames3 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:00 pm

Tex1961 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:34 am
I wanted to get some opinions from you guys. that OC....

I've strictly been 100% IWC since I got my LTC, but have been considering OWB. Currently I run a S&W Shield with an Alien Gear Holster.... If I were to switch to OC, I would most likely change holsters as I'm not overly fond of AG holsters for OWB.... I'm also not opposed to switching to a different pistol either....

That being said, I'm curious as to what you guys that OC use and what retention level (if any) would you recommend... I would also like to mention that I probably would only OWB during the cooler months when I would be wearing a jacket... This also does include Church where I have usher duties and am part of our security team.... I don't know if OWB with a jacket VS IWB with shirt tucked in and jacket would be any difference on draw time or not... Really just looking for thoughts....

Please, no arguments on IWB VS OWB... This post is strictly for asking OWB retention choices and holsters.....

Thanks
I carry my S&W M&P M2.0 9mm 5inch openly as my default method. If it is concealed, it is because I am cold, do not want to get wet, or SWMBO says I have to go to HEB. Only other exception is in my church's sanctuary during the worship service.

I have one pistol that I carry in the same holster, on my right hip, all day, every day: Safariland 7TS ALS with Guard and QLS. Safariland Level II retention. This has served me well for the three years I've carried this pistol.

Sub 1.5 seconds draw to first shot, cold. I can clean the Bill Drill. Defeating Safariland Level II retention may keep me from reaching 1 second or sub-1 second draw to first shot, but I find the trade-off acceptable.

I would recommend the Safariland 7TS ALS, which is Safariland Level I retention. That is I what I got for my father to use in carrying his M&P Compact 9mm 4inch. My 23 year old son bought his own ALS so his M&P Compact 9mm 4inch would be more secure when he is riding his HD 750 Street Rod.

However, that does not seem to be your real question. When selecting an outside the waist band holster that you intend to conceal, retention is not really an issue. By retention, I mean what Safariland means; an active method of keeping the firearm in the holster other than friction. See this video by John Correia, of Active Self Protection, on the qualities of a decent holster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox7GrdjqRXk&t=120s
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1

User avatar

Jago668
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 966
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 12:31 am

Re: OWB Retension preference

#9

Post by Jago668 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:04 pm

I like the ALS system from Safariland. You can get with or without the hood, and thum strap thing.
NRA Benefactor Member


strogg
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:51 pm
Location: DFW (Denton County)

Re: OWB Retension preference

#10

Post by strogg » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:20 pm

I literally own a lot of different styles. Here's a rundown of what I think:

Friction only kydex: It works great if it's a taco shell style like the Blade Techs. Pancake style is a bit too loose.
Friction only leather: I use it exclusively for my 1911 and double stack compact 9s. It needs to be designed correctly, though (in other words, not mass produced). The pressure of the belt pressing the leather against the body really makes it difficult for the gun to fall out.
Thumb break kydex: Overkill for me. It may take more than one try for me to undo the thumb break. Especially with a Blade Tech. I swear with those it takes longer to get the gun out of the holster than it does to put it back.
Thumb break leather: Same as above. The only thumb break I can open without fail is the Galco one. As a note, that said Galco one can and will undo itself sometimes without you even noticing.
Safariland ALS: Stupid easy and very secure at the same time. This is my go to kydex holster.
Blackhawk Omnivore: This may seem intuitive, but if the gun isn't in the right position, it won't unlock. I always have to push the gun down before disengaging the lock. It is awkward. I don't use it anymore.
Uncle Mikes Reflex holster: I love the idea and execution. Just twist and the gun can come out with zero resistance. It is about as fast as the ALS holster for me. Reholstering is also by far the fastest with this one. Unfortunately, bumping anything against the grip of the gun will also unlock it. So be careful. I don't use this one anymore because the odds of the gun coming out of the holster unknowingly isn't all that low.

Bottom line: The ALS is by far my favorite holster when it comes to comfort, security, and draw speed. I use my leather pancake if I want to look a bit classier. I avoid Blade Techs because they can get a bit awkward since they're designed for law enforcement where the gun is a bit away from the body. They're also incredibly difficult to conceal with a cover garment.

If you're worried about someone stealing your gun off your belt, a cover garment is enough. But I highly recommend having something with very good passive retention or active retention. I have met countless people (including myself) who have had guns just fall out of the holster. Not good.


loktite
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:13 pm

Re: OWB Retension preference

#11

Post by loktite » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:56 pm

I also prefer the ALS. I have the hood -- not because I'm worried about someone attempting a gun grab from the front (I have the ALS guard as well) -- but because it can do a nice job of holding a jacket/cover garment on the inside of the holster if you don't want to be concealed and not have to sweep, perhaps at a gas station at night.. The ALS guard definitely requires extra draw practice, as well as break in time (probably 200 or so draws to break in on mine)

I originally had a GLS, but that is so inferior it's not funny. Mower seat belt would disengage it sometimes, found my shield out of the holster while mowing with that thing..
NRA Endowment Member

User avatar

oohrah
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: McLennan County

Re: OWB Retension preference

#12

Post by oohrah » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:42 am

Just my way, but I agree with some sort or retention. I OC a PX4 Storm (.45) in a Berreta paddle holster. It has a retention feature that you must twist the grip clockwise (RH carry) to unlock the retention. If you were to try and grab my pistol, you would have to twist CCW and it would remain locked. I don't know who would eventually win the fight, but it would give me extra time to react.

And I practice drawing and shooting during steel matches at my club.
USMC, Retired
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 12830
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: OWB Retension preference

#13

Post by C-dub » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:24 pm

loktite wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:56 pm
but because it can do a nice job of holding a jacket/cover garment on the inside of the holster if you don't want to be concealed and not have to sweep,
I've used a Safariland 7377 with just the thumb release for at least a couple years now and it is great. I'm contemplating the same for my Colt Competition once it is cleared for carry. It is still in the break in period and I'm not completely confident in its reliability and I'm not getting out to shoot it often enough to get through this very quickly.

I've considered the level III with the strap and guard. I'm trying to picture just what you mean by this part of your statement. Do you mean that having the cover garment up between your body and the guard it is also out of the way of the thumb release? When I put a cover shirt like that with the one I have, without the guard, it does interfere a little with the thumb release, so I don't do this.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider


longtooth
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 12189
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Angelina County

Re: OWB Retension preference

#14

Post by longtooth » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:01 pm

I am OWB exclusively and OC virtually all the time. Safari Land ALS for my 1911.
:fire :fire :fire
Image
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
CHL Instructor. http://www.pdtraining.us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11

User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: OWB Retension preference

#15

Post by oljames3 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:21 pm

This is my M&P M2.0 9mm 5inch in its Safariland 7TS ALS. I carry it on a gray Titan NexBelt.
Image
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1

Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”