Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

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LDP
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Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#1

Post by LDP » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:37 pm

Supposedly the City of Galveston police have a policy that any time they encounter a firearm, they must check its serial number which means handling a (potentially) loaded weapon, calling in serial # and receiving "roger" from dispatch.
Four questions:
1) has anyone encountered this in any other jurisdictions in TX
2) is this lawful?
3) if not, do we have any right to refuse?
4) am I being paranoid or does this seem like a great way to slowly build up a database of firearms in the state?

For the record, I applaud LEOs, I would not want their job (dealing with morons on everyday basis), I cooperate with the police because they are just doing their job of mostly protecting us but this just does not seem right. (I cannot put my finger on it)

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#2

Post by SRO1911 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:39 pm

I have had this happen in Palo pinto county
It led to a very interesting conversation with a seargent and an ADA regarding the officer removing the handgun from the holster I handed it to him in (long drive, was using a paddle holster with a thumb snap.
There is an interesting assortment of case law debating what consists of a closed container, and how a holstered firearm can possibly have any bearing on probable cause in relation to a failed license plate light.
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#3

Post by Lynyrd » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 pm

Check the serial number against what? As far is I have been told there is not a gun registration database, either state or federal. They could check the serial numbers against reported stolen guns, but what else?
Do what you say you're gonna do.


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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#4

Post by LDP » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:44 pm

Lynyrd wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Check the serial number against what? As far is I have been told there is not a gun registration database, either state or federal. They could check the serial numbers against reported stolen guns, but what else?
That is my understanding that this could be their excuse. But I do not have more information, sorry.
And I don't know how to obtain more information. Short of calling the Galveston PD and trying to anger some clerk with my nosy questions. :mrgreen:
I thought I'd ask the legality questions here. We have some lawyers on the boards.

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#5

Post by G.A. Heath » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:01 am

Lynyrd wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Check the serial number against what? As far is I have been told there is not a gun registration database, either state or federal. They could check the serial numbers against reported stolen guns, but what else?
Locally when I hear guns run the response is usually "No 43 on that firearm." Meaning no info. A time or two I have heard "That serial number comes back 99 out of...." meaning a firearm of that manufacturer with that serial number was reported stolen, they then confirm the model and I have never heard it come back a match.
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#6

Post by Liberty » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:26 am

LDP wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:37 pm

1) has anyone encountered this in any other jurisdictions in TX
2) is this lawful?
3) if not, do we have any right to refuse?
4) am I being paranoid or does this seem like a great way to slowly build up a database of firearms in the state?
1) Nope, I've been asked to disarm, but never had them run the serial numbers that I know of.
2) They can legally ask you to disarm if they feel there is a threat.
3) If they have made a legal stop, I can't think of a law that prohibits them from asking you to disarm. and running the numbers.
4) They could try to start a database, but it would be very incomplete and useless.

I've had several encounters with Galveston PD over the years. They have never disarmed me. I don't think it is a policy for every Stop of an LTC holder. Maybe a brand new one? I had a conversation with a patrolman a couple weeks ago and he told me that there have been a lot of break ins into cars with guns lately. so it could be a new policy.
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#7

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:27 pm

I know they are just TV shows but I have seen this on several of them. Live PD, Alaska State Troopers and even Lone Star Law (the game warden show), just to name a few. I will say I don't recall any of the shows I saw this on being for Licensed Concealed Carry people.

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#8

Post by anygunanywhere » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:33 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:27 pm
I know they are just TV shows but I have seen this on several of them. Live PD, Alaska State Troopers and even Lone Star Law (the game warden show), just to name a few. I will say I don't recall any of the shows I saw this on being for Licensed Concealed Carry people.
I saw one on LPD. Williamson County deputy ran LTC holder's weapon.
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#9

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:42 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:33 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:27 pm
I know they are just TV shows but I have seen this on several of them. Live PD, Alaska State Troopers and even Lone Star Law (the game warden show), just to name a few. I will say I don't recall any of the shows I saw this on being for Licensed Concealed Carry people.
I saw one on LPD. Williamson County deputy ran LTC holder's weapon.
Well there you go. Even on an LTC. I thought there was a thread on here a few months ago discussing this issue.


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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#10

Post by LDP » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:00 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:42 pm
Well there you go. Even on an LTC. I thought there was a thread on here a few months ago discussing this issue.
Would you happen to have a link? I did not find anything. I don't think I searched well.
Thank you in advance.

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#11

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:21 pm

LDP wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:00 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:42 pm
Well there you go. Even on an LTC. I thought there was a thread on here a few months ago discussing this issue.
Would you happen to have a link? I did not find anything. I don't think I searched well.
Thank you in advance.
I also tried to search it and found nothing. It may have come up as an off topic conversation in a thread somewhere. The thing that made me think of it was the mention of the live pd show. Maybe I dreamed it...

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#12

Post by Jusme » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:54 pm

Evidently they are checking it to see if it is stolen. To me it comes close to a 4th amendment violation. Possessing firearm is not probable cause to see if it stolen. Anymore than checking your car stereo, a television in your trunk, or a 4 wheeler in the back of your truck. IANAL YMMV
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#13

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:22 pm

IANL, but it seems like 'unreasonable search and seizure' if there is no RAS up front that a crime (related to the firearm) has been committed.
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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#14

Post by LDP » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:42 pm

I was thinking along the same lines. Do they have any right to inspect firearms or any other objects in the vehicle without probable cause? Why won't they check our cellphone serial numbers? What about the car stereo?

Of course if it happened to me, I would plead with the officer for common sense in firearm safety. What in the world would possess an officer to handle a LOADED and thus dangerous firearm just to find a number to call in?

So again, if this happened to me (which just might since I travel in blue counties a lot), what would happen to me if I refused? Tackle? Resisting arrest charges? Prosecution? Criminal penalties? Seizure of my EDC? Red flag laws and seizure of all my firearms? Afterall, we do live in blue libtard society.

You know what? I will actually inquire with the lawyers on the lawyer board. I'll post the results (if any) here.

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Re: Running weapon serial # during a traffic stop?

#15

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:42 pm

I am in agreement that it seems wrong. Like a fishing expedition for a crime. After seeing them do it on so many cop shows, I think there must be something that makes it legal. I have never had it happen to me but if some cop wanted to check the serial number, I would not likely protest. It would irritate me but not to the point of wanting a verbal altercation with a cop on the side of the road.

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