RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#16

Post by carlson1 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:54 pm

Slide on the Shadow Systems MR918 is cut low enough that their stock sights 1/3 co-witness with a RMR.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#17

Post by troglodyte » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 pm

Medley86 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:41 pm
troglodyte wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:05 am
The simultaneously most hurtful/true thing I’ve heard about shooting red dot equipped pistols is “There are no more hard shots, just bad trigger presses”.
OUCH!

I'm looking at getting a XD 9 Service Model soon. Upgrading to RDS is high on the want list.
Xdm 4.5 osp will get you a slightly longer barrel few more rounds and a slide pre milled for an optic. You can also get one with an extended threaded barrel on top of all that
I found the OSP! I am embarrassed to admit I haven't looked at the XDM since they first came out. I'm eyeballing the OSP hard now.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#18

Post by K-Texas » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm

Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven't found one that works for me either. Takes too long to get the dot where it needs to be. Same with ARs, I much prefer a low magnification scope of 2X or less on the low end.

Crimson Trace is starting to do some very innovative things. Maybe they or someone else will offer a sight where the dot is fixed where you then adjust it for POA out to 25 yards, even 15 would be fine. Then I'd have a valid reason to add the Canik TP9SFx! ;-)
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#19

Post by Tex1961 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:42 pm

K-Texas wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm
Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven't found one that works for me either. Takes too long to get the dot where it needs to be. Same with ARs, I much prefer a low magnification scope of 2X or less on the low end.

Crimson Trace is starting to do some very innovative things. Maybe they or someone else will offer a sight where the dot is fixed where you then adjust it for POA out to 25 yards, even 15 would be fine. Then I'd have a valid reason to add the Canik TP9SFx! ;-)
You won’t regret the SFX. one heck of a package
Mike Troncalli
Owner and operator of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving"
and Certified gun nut. :txflag:

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM


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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#20

Post by K-Texas » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:19 pm

Tex1961 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:42 pm
K-Texas wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm
Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven't found one that works for me either. Takes too long to get the dot where it needs to be. Same with ARs, I much prefer a low magnification scope of 2X or less on the low end.

Crimson Trace is starting to do some very innovative things. Maybe they or someone else will offer a sight where the dot is fixed where you then adjust it for POA out to 25 yards, even 15 would be fine. Then I'd have a valid reason to add the Canik TP9SFx! ;-)
You won’t regret the SFX. one heck of a package
I've been shooting a TP9sa since November of 15 and use it for testing handloads. I like the SFl also that is the same length as the SFx, but is the tactical model without the +2 mag extensions. If a sighting system comes along that would work for me, the SFx would be a must have. ;-)
Anything that can be corrupted by man; will be corrupted.

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#21

Post by Tex1961 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:41 pm

K-Texas wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:19 pm
Tex1961 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:42 pm
K-Texas wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm
Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven't found one that works for me either. Takes too long to get the dot where it needs to be. Same with ARs, I much prefer a low magnification scope of 2X or less on the low end.

Crimson Trace is starting to do some very innovative things. Maybe they or someone else will offer a sight where the dot is fixed where you then adjust it for POA out to 25 yards, even 15 would be fine. Then I'd have a valid reason to add the Canik TP9SFx! ;-)
You won’t regret the SFX. one heck of a package
I've been shooting a TP9sa since November of 15 and use it for testing handloads. I like the SFl also that is the same length as the SFx, but is the tactical model without the +2 mag extensions. If a sighting system comes along that would work for me, the SFx would be a must have. ;-)
If you’re in the Plano (Dallas) area, I’m always willing to meet and let you try it. Be warned though, you’re bank account will drop down about $600.00 afterwards :clapping:
Mike Troncalli
Owner and operator of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving"
and Certified gun nut. :txflag:

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#22

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:03 pm

Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven’t tried shooting an RMR-sighted pistol yet, but I had a very similar experience to yours with a laser-sighted handgun, with the same complaint. This was a S&W 642 with the Crimson Trace grip panels, belonging to my wife. The dot danced around just enough to make me start chasing it all over the target.

My thought (read that as "hope") is that, with an RMR, that effect would be less pronounced....the reason being that the dot isn’t actually projected onto the target, at the distal end of a beam. The amplitude of the movement of a laser beam at the proximal end is minuscule compared to the amplitude of its movement at the distal end a number of yards distant. So my hope is that a dot would behave the same way as the proximal end of a laser beam, and be therefore much less noticeable. But I’d want to try out someone else's RMR-sighted pistol before I made the investment in converting one of mine to an RMR, or bought a new one with that capability already built in....and then bought the actual optic.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#23

Post by Scott B. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:38 pm

My suggestion for those trying out pistol red dots is to give it time. I was less than thrilled with the first couple of range trips. I've decided to stick with the red dot for the next six months and I'm finally starting to turn the corner after about 700 rounds.

There are some plus and minuses that I'm still exploring but check out this ridiculously clean dot torture test from last Friday. Those of you who shoot this know what a challenge it can be if you don't put the work in. Well this one put a smile on my face. The support hand/strong hand sequence is what really sold me. It's almost cheating.
IMG_20200207_104455_02.jpg
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#24

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:41 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:03 pm
Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
I haven’t tried shooting an RMR-sighted pistol yet, but I had a very similar experience to yours with a laser-sighted handgun, with the same complaint. This was a S&W 642 with the Crimson Trace grip panels, belonging to my wife. The dot danced around just enough to make me start chasing it all over the target.

My thought (read that as "hope") is that, with an RMR, that effect would be less pronounced....the reason being that the dot isn’t actually projected onto the target, at the distal end of a beam. The amplitude of the movement of a laser beam at the proximal end is minuscule compared to the amplitude of its movement at the distal end a number of yards distant. So my hope is that a dot would behave the same way as the proximal end of a laser beam, and be therefore much less noticeable. But I’d want to try out someone else's RMR-sighted pistol before I made the investment in converting one of mine to an RMR, or bought a new one with that capability already built in....and then bought the actual optic.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.... And your thoughts (hopes) are pretty spot on as well.... Give me an RMR on 6 inch steel plates and you can call me Dead Eye.... Easy to acquire, quick to get accurate and follow up shots off as well... My problem just comes in on paper when I'm trying to say on the bullseye.... The dot waivers just enough that I'm trying to compensate for it an just throws me off even more... Not to say that I't hitting the floor or ceiling, but I just find that on paper I seem to get tighter groupings and less wild off center shots when using iron sights.... Again.. this is me, your mileage may be different.
Mike Troncalli
Owner and operator of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving"
and Certified gun nut. :txflag:

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#25

Post by Lena » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Had cancer surgery and paying for nerve damage from it here, I tried RDots on handguns and do much better with hi viz irons, much better like 1 hole groups quarter size last outing with my 1911, lifelong shooter just old now, had my days in the past but win every match if enjoyment in shooting counts. I wish I could do better with red dots, on carbines I have no issues on the same targets. Off hand carbines I do very well. To the point I took my RD off handguns, looking for a hi vis white dot sights similar to Glocks just need to get another set for my Canik, I shoot it worse than any I own I admit sadly.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#26

Post by 74novaman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:33 pm

Scott B. wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:38 pm
My suggestion for those trying out pistol red dots is to give it time. I was less than thrilled with the first couple of range trips. I've decided to stick with the red dot for the next six months and I'm finally starting to turn the corner after about 700 rounds.

Absolutely correct. It takes time and reps to get used to it.

Too many people try it out once or twice and give up.

Red dots on handguns are game changing once you learn how to shoot with them.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#27

Post by carlson1 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:49 pm

74novaman wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:33 pm
Scott B. wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:38 pm
My suggestion for those trying out pistol red dots is to give it time. I was less than thrilled with the first couple of range trips. I've decided to stick with the red dot for the next six months and I'm finally starting to turn the corner after about 700 rounds.

Absolutely correct. It takes time and reps to get used to it.

Too many people try it out once or twice and give up.

Red dots on handguns are game changing once you learn how to shoot with them.
That is the secret. Just don’t give up and after a lot practice (doesn’t have to the the range) it just clicks. I have sbout 500 rounds down rsnge and at least 1,000 drawing and shooting at a laser target.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#28

Post by maverick2076 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:39 pm

Well, I’m going to give this a shot. I picked up a G17 MOS yesterday and have a Holosun 507-GR on order. I decided to go with the Holosun because I pick up green dots faster, like the circle dot combo, and can always move it to a PCC if I don’t like it.

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#29

Post by carlson1 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:57 pm

I also have the Sig XCarry with Romeo 1 that I like also. I just like the Shadow Systems a little more. The RMR sets a little lower on the rail and helps me to pick up the dot quicker.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#30

Post by txhighlander » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:10 pm

I have a friend with a Shadow with a Holosun on it that I got to play with today. Can't say I like the sight at all, I was all over the board with it and my eye focus problem kept wanting to find the iron sights. At this time I will stick with my iron sights.
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