RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

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TexasVet
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#31

Post by TexasVet » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:23 pm

txhighlander wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:10 pm
I have a friend with a Shadow with a Holosun on it that I got to play with today. Can't say I like the sight at all, I was all over the board with it and my eye focus problem kept wanting to find the iron sights. At this time I will stick with my iron sights.
Did they have a CZ Shadow 2? Milled the slide to have a drop in sight or did they get an adapter plate that dovetailed in for where the rear sight would sit?


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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#32

Post by txhighlander » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:26 pm

No Shadow Systems MR918, I have one with the cut and one without. He is training to shoot matches of some sort.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#33

Post by K-Texas » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm

So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#34

Post by Scott B. » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:21 pm

K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
I'm about a week in on daily carrying with the red dot. Didn't carry until I was confident that I would be proficient with it. My draw stroke hasn't changed. For now I'm using a modified version of the same holster I've been using for the last 3 years. Made a smooth transition to EDC though I have been doing some draw and present practice this week.

I'm going to run it in a match here in about two weeks. Should be informative.

One of the main things I want to figure out is how much 'life' debris accumulates on the lens and emitter, and how quickly. I've got my eye on the sealed emitter Romeo2 that should be out in the summer if it becomes a problem.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#35

Post by carlson1 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:12 pm

TexasVet wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:23 pm
txhighlander wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:10 pm
I have a friend with a Shadow with a Holosun on it that I got to play with today. Can't say I like the sight at all, I was all over the board with it and my eye focus problem kept wanting to find the iron sights. At this time I will stick with my iron sights.
Did they have a CZ Shadow 2? Milled the slide to have a drop in sight or did they get an adapter plate that dovetailed in for where the rear sight would sit?
I have the Shadow Systems MR918 and it is milled for the RMR and I believe also the Delta Point. The RMR sets very low in the slide. The top comes off, but there are no plates since it is milled for just those two RDS. The Shadow Systems M920 is milled for many different sights.

K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
I have been carrying one for a while now. I see no need to go back. The pistol I carry is the Shadow System is it has a 1911 grip, beaver tail, extras that bin like, and and the slide milled for the RMR.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#36

Post by txhighlander » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:07 pm

K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)

What little experience I have with RDS etc tells me my money is better spent on ammo and range time. I did put xs sights on my Shadow Systems and when I relax and just shoot it is much faster. My accuracy went down a little bit but the more I shoot the better it gets.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#37

Post by K-Texas » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:43 pm

txhighlander wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:07 pm
K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)

What little experience I have with RDS etc tells me my money is better spent on ammo and range time. I did put xs sights on my Shadow Systems and when I relax and just shoot it is much faster. My accuracy went down a little bit but the more I shoot the better it gets.
There can be situations where the only sighting option is to use the planes of the slide or revolver barrel. Not a good time to be waiting for a dot to get on target. That must also be part of the training regimen. ;-)
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#38

Post by mrvmax » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:22 pm

I use one exclusively on my G40 but that’s really only used when I’m hunting. If i could settle on one carry gun I’d get one for EDC but I swap carry guns too frequently right now. I had planned on getting my G29 slide milled for a red dot but I ended up selling it.


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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#39

Post by Tex1961 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:53 pm

Tex1961 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:05 pm
I’m just shy of 60. Old to many of you and young to many others. Over the last year I went down the RMR path but have returned to regular iron sights. My issue isn’t my eyesight but hands that aren’t as strong or steady as they used to be. Seeing the red dot on the target jinking around makes me look like I have Parkinson’s, and throws off my concentration. The iron sights while now harder to see due to my older eyes keep my sight picture more stable on the target. A conundrum for sure, but that’s my personal issue with RMR’s. Truly frustrating as I really do like them.
Quoting myself here. Such a beautiful day here I couldn’t pass up a chance to hit the outdoor range. I set my target out to 15 yards and using both iron sights on my beretta and RMR on my canik sfx. I still consistently shot tighter groups with the iron sights. The red dot just jinks around to much for me and the harder I try to keep it steady and bring it to center the worse it is. For whatever reason I’m able to keep my regular old iron sights more steady. I take my NRA instructor course next month and to qualify I have to be able to score 16 out of 20 rounds within a 6 inch group. With iron sights I’m able to consistently make the group. Using my RMR is simply impossible, my grouping spreads out past the 6 inch mark. It’s a shame really as I really wanted to use red dot style sights.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#40

Post by 74novaman » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:32 am

K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
You need to read the Sage Dynamics white paper on red dot use.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_50 ... 7925b1.pdf

Related to your question would be the force on force testing they did.
In a direct comparison, there is not a great discrepancy in the number of rounds fired, nor in the number of rounds that were hits, there is a large discrepancy that favors the MRDS in the number of critical hits. It’s also worth noting that the number of rounds missed is nearly twice as high with iron sights.
In "defensive scenarios", the red dot equipped handgun was a significant advantage, even for students who did not have previous experience shooting red dot equipped handguns before this class.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#41

Post by troglodyte » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:59 am

74novaman wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:32 am
K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
You need to read the Sage Dynamics white paper on red dot use.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_50 ... 7925b1.pdf

Related to your question would be the force on force testing they did.
In a direct comparison, there is not a great discrepancy in the number of rounds fired, nor in the number of rounds that were hits, there is a large discrepancy that favors the MRDS in the number of critical hits. It’s also worth noting that the number of rounds missed is nearly twice as high with iron sights.
In "defensive scenarios", the red dot equipped handgun was a significant advantage, even for students who did not have previous experience shooting red dot equipped handguns before this class.
While a very limited study it does show the trend that MRDS favor more on-target shots. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#42

Post by K-Texas » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:10 pm

74novaman wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:32 am
K-Texas wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm
So how many of you guys carry, or plan to carry with a RDS mounted on your carry-gun?

The points made about putting the time in to get acclimated certainly seem valid, as far as range use. In a defensive shooting scenario, can you get a shot on target as quickly? ;-)
You need to read the Sage Dynamics white paper on red dot use.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_50 ... 7925b1.pdf

Related to your question would be the force on force testing they did.
In a direct comparison, there is not a great discrepancy in the number of rounds fired, nor in the number of rounds that were hits, there is a large discrepancy that favors the MRDS in the number of critical hits. It’s also worth noting that the number of rounds missed is nearly twice as high with iron sights.
In "defensive scenarios", the red dot equipped handgun was a significant advantage, even for students who did not have previous experience shooting red dot equipped handguns before this class.
Thanks! I will read it. ;-)
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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#43

Post by maverick2076 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:22 pm

I picked up a G17 MOS and mounted a Holosun HE507GR on it. I took it to the range twice this week, and I’m hooked. As long as I remember to focus on the target and not look for the sight, the dot comes right up in line. I do need to work on my recoil management, but that was a given. I really like the dot and circle combo on the Holosun, and the green reticle tracks faster for me than red. I like it enough that I ordered a second one for my Steyr.

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Re: RDS v. Iron Sights: Not just for old blind guys

#44

Post by carlson1 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:41 pm

I bought some LaserLyte targets, 9mm LaserLyte bullet, and a blue LaserLyte Glock 43 pistol to help us at the church to practice without using “empty” firearms. Everyday I practice 50-75 draw and fire using my RMR on the LaserLyte. With the range and dry fire I have over 2,500 repetitions with the RMR. It has taken me a while to be able to pick the red dot up quick, but I have.
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