CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

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philip964
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CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#1

Post by philip964 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:32 am

A Woman Accidentally Shot and Killed Her Daughter While Trying to Turn on Her Gun's Safety - TIME

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-acciden ... d=54641774

This story tells it differently. Dropped gun.

More ammunition for the antis.

RIP

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Middle Age Russ
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#2

Post by Middle Age Russ » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:55 am

Another avoidable tragedy -- if we are to believe the story. I have reservations, though, because of reported inconsistencies in what the mom has said, and because most modern firearms are designed so that they won't fire if dropped assuming that they are working properly. Perhaps it is due to the mother being distraught and all, but I don't know. Still, I pray for God's peace for the family.
Russ
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flechero
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#3

Post by flechero » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:50 am

I guess they could have checked her hand for powder residue and determined if it fired when "dropped."

Also hard to see any gun firing when dropped from 2-3 feet on carpet, regardless of impact angle.

So sad either way.

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ScottDLS
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#4

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:56 am

Her revolver dropped on the ground....and fired. Three times.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#5

Post by MechAg94 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:57 am

Cleveland ABC affiliate WEWS reported that the mother admitted to dropping the gun in a 911 call and said the girl was not breathing. She also told operators she thought the safety was off, but then later told authorities the safety was on, WEWS reported.
Inconsistent statements so we really don't know what happened.


sr4440
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#6

Post by sr4440 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:06 am


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John Galt
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#7

Post by John Galt » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:12 am

sr4440 wrote:Sig p320?

Taurus?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0k56pS_u3Q



Joe
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#8

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:01 am

What a terrible loss. One thing.... I absolutely refuse to believe any Democrat Steno Pool (AKA “the media”) initial reporting on what happened. They are sure to use it to keep beating the drum against “allowing” civilians to carry firearms......right up until the FACTS turn out to no longer be convenient, and then they’ll drop the story like a hot potato. And we won’t know all of the facts for a little while yet. For instance, the article states:
“Police said the gun was legally registered....”
But, per https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/ohio-gun-lawl:
Ohio gun laws are relatively nonrestrictive. For instance, an individual does not require a permit to buy a shotgun, rifle, or handgun. Ohio gun laws do not require an individual to register his/her firearms.
Last I checked, Cleveland is still in Ohio. Ergo, ABC News is woofin’ out its ......uh......ABC News ain’t tellin’ the truth about an easily verifiable fact. So why should I believe anything else they say about as yet un-verified facts of the case?

But one thing strikes immediately strikes me..... there are guns that are perfect for neophytes right out of the box, and guns that require a little more expertise to operate safely. The first category would include nearly any revolver, and all Glocks, M&Ps (without manual safety), and XD/XDM/XDS pistols. The latter group would include 1911s, and any other pistol designed to be carried cocked and locked with a manual thumb safety. In today’s litigious world, most or all of them are designed to be drop-safe, but there are still plenty of pistols in circulation out there that are not necessarily drop-safe, which are still perfectly good pistols. 1911-A1s come to mind. Occasionally, a gun falling into the first category will turn out to not be drop-safe, and the factory will then take steps to remediate that problem - the Sig P320 being a most recent example.

Even so, even assuming that the gun was an un-repaired P320 that was only dropped from 3’, what in hades was she doing manipulating that gun anywhere near her 2 year old girl? I’d like to think that I am not heartless, and maybe I’m just plain wrong, but it seems to me that there must have been some violation of the 4 basic rules of gun safety here.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#9

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:09 am

BTW, I left a comment on that article:
Dear ABC News, OHIO NAS NO GUN REGISTRATION. Get yer facts straight, and then maybe I’ll believe your reporting on the rest of the story. This is a rubric that the Democrat Steno Pool (AKA “the media”) continuously repeats, but it has no basis in fact, and is purely a leftwing fantasy of that same media.
https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/ohio-gun-law

Ohio gun laws are relatively nonrestrictive. For instance, an individual does not require a permit to buy a shotgun, rifle, or handgun. Ohio gun laws do not require an individual to register his/her firearms.
This was an EASILY verifiable fact, but you falsely reported the opposite to be the case. Why then should anyone believe anything else you’ve reported about this tragic story beyond the very basic fact that a mother tragically and negligently shot her 2 year old to death, with the codicil that you’ll report additional FACTS as they become available?
My comment wasn’t in the moderator queue more than 30 seconds before being deleted instead of posted.

They don’t want to know the truth! They can HANDLE the truth!!! :lol:
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#10

Post by rp_photo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:15 am

In cases like this, I wish the make and model of gun was revealed in sufficient detail so that others may learn if their own firearms may have issues.
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WildRose
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#11

Post by WildRose » Fri May 04, 2018 3:52 am

flechero wrote:I guess they could have checked her hand for powder residue and determined if it fired when "dropped."

Also hard to see any gun firing when dropped from 2-3 feet on carpet, regardless of impact angle.

So sad either way.
If you're that close you're going to have powder residue on you.
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Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


WildRose
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#12

Post by WildRose » Fri May 04, 2018 3:55 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:What a terrible loss. One thing.... I absolutely refuse to believe any Democrat Steno Pool (AKA “the media”) initial reporting on what happened. They are sure to use it to keep beating the drum against “allowing” civilians to carry firearms......right up until the FACTS turn out to no longer be convenient, and then they’ll drop the story like a hot potato. And we won’t know all of the facts for a little while yet. For instance, the article states:
“Police said the gun was legally registered....”
But, per https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/ohio-gun-lawl:
Ohio gun laws are relatively nonrestrictive. For instance, an individual does not require a permit to buy a shotgun, rifle, or handgun. Ohio gun laws do not require an individual to register his/her firearms.
Last I checked, Cleveland is still in Ohio. Ergo, ABC News is woofin’ out its ......uh......ABC News ain’t tellin’ the truth about an easily verifiable fact. So why should I believe anything else they say about as yet un-verified facts of the case?

But one thing strikes immediately strikes me..... there are guns that are perfect for neophytes right out of the box, and guns that require a little more expertise to operate safely. The first category would include nearly any revolver, and all Glocks, M&Ps (without manual safety), and XD/XDM/XDS pistols. The latter group would include 1911s, and any other pistol designed to be carried cocked and locked with a manual thumb safety. In today’s litigious world, most or all of them are designed to be drop-safe, but there are still plenty of pistols in circulation out there that are not necessarily drop-safe, which are still perfectly good pistols. 1911-A1s come to mind. Occasionally, a gun falling into the first category will turn out to not be drop-safe, and the factory will then take steps to remediate that problem - the Sig P320 being a most recent example.

Even so, even assuming that the gun was an un-repaired P320 that was only dropped from 3’, what in hades was she doing manipulating that gun anywhere near her 2 year old girl? I’d like to think that I am not heartless, and maybe I’m just plain wrong, but it seems to me that there must have been some violation of the 4 basic rules of gun safety here.
I'm always amazed at just how little knowledge most in the media and worse, those who actually are responsible for making firearms laws have on the subject. Most of them wouldn't know what end to look down when firing much less anything that requires actual thought or experience with firearms.
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Keith B
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#13

Post by Keith B » Fri May 04, 2018 7:28 pm

WildRose wrote:
flechero wrote:I guess they could have checked her hand for powder residue and determined if it fired when "dropped."

Also hard to see any gun firing when dropped from 2-3 feet on carpet, regardless of impact angle.

So sad either way.
If you're that close you're going to have powder residue on you.
But not in large amounts on your hand and arm like you will if you pulled the trigger. There are patterns that will determine your position to the firearm when it went off.
Keith
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Psalm 82:3-4


WildRose
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#14

Post by WildRose » Sat May 05, 2018 1:26 am

Keith B wrote:
WildRose wrote:
flechero wrote:I guess they could have checked her hand for powder residue and determined if it fired when "dropped."

Also hard to see any gun firing when dropped from 2-3 feet on carpet, regardless of impact angle.

So sad either way.
If you're that close you're going to have powder residue on you.
But not in large amounts on your hand and arm like you will if you pulled the trigger. There are patterns that will determine your position to the firearm when it went off.
I'm more than somewhat familiar with powder residue and I don't think this can be true except with revolvers. The cloud of powder is pretty well generally spread with all others.

With a revolver there's an explosive jet of burnt and still burning powder between the cylinder and barrel but with semi auto's that's not the case.

If you're within 3 feet of either the muzzle or open action you're going to get covered in residue.

I realize technology and testing have improved greatly over the last three decades but I don't believe it's gotten to the point we can definitively determine if someone actually fired a semi auto or if they were just extremely close when it went off.
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Keith B
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Re: CHL Mother kills 2 YO daughter when switching on safety

#15

Post by Keith B » Sat May 05, 2018 7:43 am

WildRose wrote: I realize technology and testing have improved greatly over the last three decades but I don't believe it's gotten to the point we can definitively determine if someone actually fired a semi auto or if they were just extremely close when it went off.
It depends on how close. I agree a revolver will leave much more residue. However, there would be a higher level of antimony on a person's hand and chest if they fired a semi-auto vs. it going off when it hit the floor as is being questioned in this case. Position to the firearm is key to the level found on a portion of the body.
Keith
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