ND While Carrying Appendix

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txhighlander
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#16

Post by txhighlander » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:02 pm

howdy wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:56 pm
The article said he placed it in a holster but I did not see any holster. He also placed a magazine in the general area after placing the pistol.
You will see holster at the end of video. He jerks the weapon out and throws it on the floor then he jerks the holster out and throws it on the floor.
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carlson1
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#17

Post by carlson1 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:06 pm

howdy wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:56 pm
The article said he placed it in a holster but I did not see any holster. He also placed a magazine in the general area after placing the pistol.
The GCode has a magazine caddy that is connected to the holster.
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Liberty
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#18

Post by Liberty » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:34 pm

txhighlander wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:40 pm
Liberty wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:33 pm
txhighlander wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:18 pm
After watching the video several times, I believe he holstered his shirt when he holstered his Glock. The holster he was using if the make is correct has a full trigger guard. The weapon didn’t discharge till he leaned forward. I can’t see how this is a weapon or holster malfunction. His shirt or something else was in the trigger guard area and when he leaned forward it pulled the trigger. I don’t know anything about the holster other than what I looked up online . I don’t like Glocks but I have shot more than a few and they really don’t accidentally discharge without human intervention. Just my viewpoint. A different pistol that had a manual safety probability wouldn’t have discharged , but how many people other than the 1911 crowd engage their manual safeties while in the holster? Glad he lived to see another day.
I do. I carry a Beretta 92fs, a P95, and Beretta PX4 sc. They all have hammers that must rise before falling , which is a warning system that precedes loud noises. A manual safety is pretty failproof and contrary to popular opinion does no slow down reaction time, and requires very little training to automate.
I use mine as well on the weapons that have a manual safety, but the key word in this is training. There are a lot of people who carry that don’t have anymore training than the class they took to get their Ltc.
These people are probably buying and carrying Glocks and their ilk, or stuffing LCPs into their britches. If they don't practice and train on their draw, they probably will get shot before they clear leather anyway.
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Deltaboy
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#19

Post by Deltaboy » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:34 pm

Glad he didn't die! We need a post action report on what really happened!
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#20

Post by flechero » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 am

cmgee67 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:48 pm
Liberty wrote:The biggest safety issue of the Glock and similar type guns is that people don't recognize the inherent dangers of such guns. Excuses like "My safety is between my ears" are commonly heard. There is a reason why traditional SA/DA and 1911s were developed with manually operated safeties. Manual safeties can save lives and injuries. IWB carry with a Glock needs special attention. Accidents happen with Glocks that simply wouldn't happen with safer engineered gun owners need to recognize this.
Stop the glock bashing. The same could be said with M&P Springfield, canik, Ruger and on and on.

Yes, and it is often said of ALL non safety guns. It isn't brand specific.

Yes you have to be more careful with a gun without a manual safety. The Glock actually has two safety’s. It has the Trigger safety and plunger safety.

I'm betting the guy in the video thought the same thing. If he had a gun with a real safety, it wouldn't have happened. Yes, I said a real safety... a swingie thingie on the trigger that is designed to move with mere grams of pressure, in the same direction of the trigger is not a safety... as evidenced by the video.

This means the only way the gun can go off is if trigger is fully pulled to the rear and the plunger safety raises up to release the striker. A Glock can not physically fire without the trigger being fully depressed to the rear and the plunger safety moving out of the way.

Exactly what was argued by Liberty- The design allows a shirt, soft holster, pant top, or anything to catch/pull/snag the trigger and fire the gun with suck little pressure, the wearer doesn't feel it.


Carry in a holster that fully covers the trigger guard and that securely holds the firearm. That’s why I choose kydex. This guy used kydex too so the only
Way it went off was something got in the trigger guard and pulled the trigger.

Yep, that's exactly what everyone said.

I honestly don't get it... why are Glock owners hypersensitive compared to owners of similar designed M&P, XD, etc.?

:tiphat:

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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#21

Post by Liberty » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:43 am

flechero wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 am

I honestly don't get it... why are Glock owners hypersensitive compared to owners of similar designed M&P, XD, etc.? [/color]
:tiphat:
My concern isn't so much that the Glock is such a dangerous gun to carry, but that there is so little awareness and a lack of willingness to acknowledge the risks of such guns. Its not just the Glock either. The two most popular guns being sold are LCPs and Glocks. I don't question that these are suitable carry pieces, but Are they really suitable for new LTCs and first gun purchases. Are folks aware that there are more "forgiving designs"?

Attempts at discussing these issues are met with accused Glock bashing. We should be willing to discuss the merits and the flaws of carry pieces with out bashing. It used to be that 1911 owners were a little sensitive about any critisism of their guns. These days the sensitivity seems to shift toward the Glocksters.

I own Rugers and Berettas.. I have looked at criticism of these weapons as helpful sometimes. All guns are a product of engineering tradeoffs. Desput claims for some 1911 owners there is no perfect handgun there is no perfect ammo.
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#22

Post by dino9832 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:49 pm

I've been carrying a G43 Glock regularly for around 3 months. There have been two incidents where it didn't "feel" right as I holstered it.
Sure enough, there was a bit of shirt that had made it's way inside the holster. Currently, I always holster the pistol a bit on the cautious side. Any resistance felt, I ease it out and double check for blockages.

Most of the time I push the holster with pistol into my waistband. About the 4 o'clock position. That being said, I do practice speed drills almost daily. So there's many times I've holstered it while in my waistband.

FYI, there's a few slide back cover plate devices on the market that give you a tactile feel if the trigger is pushing back the striker while holstering.
https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/produ ... rol-device

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AndyC
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#23

Post by AndyC » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:54 pm

Deltaboy wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:34 pm
Glad he didn't die! We need a post action report on what really happened!
Yep - I'm suspicious about this incident as it is. No attribution, no location, no after-action review, a very calm woman who already has gloves on, etc.
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Rob72
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#24

Post by Rob72 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:21 pm

The loss of collegial memory is an interesting thing.

LE started moving to DAs (revos)when officers managed to thumb, or snag the hammer on the sthumb-strap, on retention holsters. The auto-revolution of the early 80's saw a bunch of similar incidents with 1911s and a few BHPs, carried by enthusiastic, but non-proficient folks.

Sigs have had fatal NDs, with officers unintentionally engaging the trigger along with the decocker.

Glocks have gotten more attention, because the design is very, "in your face."

I've carried all the platforms mentioned above, over the years. The one I still carry is Glock.

Bottom line, if you don't know what you're doing, any weapon is dangerous. It's more so when you THINK you know what you're doing...

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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#25

Post by carlson1 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:32 pm

Rob72 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Bottom line, if you don't know what you're doing, any weapon is dangerous. It's more so when you THINK you know what you're doing...
:iagree:
I carry a G43 quiet often. I also almost always carry one of my J Frames. The key is to train and practice. I shooot my J Frames often and I have been carrying one since 1982 almost daily. So many people think because they have a gun that is all that is necessary. That is just the starting point.
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Deltaboy
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#26

Post by Deltaboy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:29 am

I am still curious to know how it happened? :tiphat:
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Rob72
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#27

Post by Rob72 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:15 pm

Here's a link to images of GCode's product:
https://www.tacticalholsters.com/produc ... er-system/

Based on the mechanism of injury (discharge occurred when the subject leaned forward), and the fact that the INCOG really has nothing which could intrude into the trigger space, it does seem very likely that he tucked some shirt, or some other bit of clothing/apparel, into the holster. The forward lean applied leverage, and BOOM!

I would note that some holster makers recommend that one place the holster on their person, then holster the weapon. I am decidedly averse to this, and locate my sidearm on my body as one unit, enclosed in its holster. The holsters I use (Keeper's, RCS Eidolon) have very distinct external features that allow a very secure grasp of the holster, over the pistol's backstrap, in locations which would not guide one's fingers into the triggerguard, should something catch. When reholstering, administratively, as this gentleman was, one should perform a clean sweep over the holster mouth, and ideally visualize placing the sidearm in the holster, then visually and tactiley check weapon placement and securing, as one reholsters.

Complacency is a bugger. :cryin


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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#28

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:22 pm

Andy C mentioned, among other things, that there is "no location" given.

A possible clue to this being a Texas site is that this business has a "Come and Take It" flag on the wall.
Although anyone anywhere could have this flag, it is very common in Texas.

But it seems that someone on our board would be able to correctly ID this incident.

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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#29

Post by cmgee67 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:32 pm

I have always holstered my gun then put the whole rig on at one time. I have always tried to minimize the chance of a ND. That seems to cut the chances down quite a bit. The only time I put a holster on then holster the gun is OWB.

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John Galt
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Re: ND While Carrying Appendix

#30

Post by John Galt » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm

Appendix is my carry of choice.

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