What Did You Do In The Reloading Room This Week?

[K-Texas]

Almost forgot! I just came in from loading 124 gr. RMR In-House JHPs in 9 x 19mm.

Those are fantastic projectiles! Consistent, well made and super accurate in my DW 9mm. I load them over varying charges of Silhouette- depending on the purpose. I just recently bought another 3k of them!

Off topic but did you see the email the other day that said they [FINALLY] bought the machinery to do 45acp and 40, in house!! Can't wait!

flechero, Silhouette is my go to powder for 124 gr. JHP defense loads in 9 x19mm. I've loaded the RMR 124 gr. In-House JHP to 1181 FPS and they held up in the water test. Looked to be about maxed out, but at 1180 FPS with a 124, a good number of ammo-makers start slapping +P on the box.

RMR is a pretty dynamic outfit, and it's good to see a guy convert his hobby into a successful business. I've done several articles where RMR supplied the bullets and how I happen to acquire 124 gr. HSTs they pulled.

[flechero]

flechero, Silhouette is my go to powder for 124 gr. JHP defense loads in 9 x19mm. I've loaded the RMR 124 gr. In-House JHP to 1181 FPS and they held up in the water test.

K-Texas,
Purely out of curiosity, do you mind sharing the gun (bbl length) and charge weight at 1181fps?

5.2 gr of Silhouette is my bread and butter load, it's really accurate and surprisingly soft in the DW. In RMR fashion, it's become my all purpose load. (ranch, home, target) That load clocks almost exactly 1100fps from the DW 4.25" bbl.

[K-Texas]

flechero, Silhouette is my go to powder for 124 gr. JHP defense loads in 9 x19mm. I've loaded the RMR 124 gr. In-House JHP to 1181 FPS and they held up in the water test.

K-Texas,
Purely out of curiosity, do you mind sharing the gun (bbl length) and charge weight at 1181fps?

5.2 gr of Silhouette is my bread and butter load, it's really accurate and surprisingly soft in the DW. In RMR fashion, it's become my all purpose load. (ranch, home, target) That load clocks almost exactly 1100fps from the DW 4.25" bbl.

Not at all, flech. It came from the 4.47" Canik TP9sa. I used the Max load listed by SIERRA for their 125 gr. JHP which they loaded at 1.075". My loads can be longer, so they were 1.122"/28.5mm in this case. Be sure to test that length, but it should be good for a DW. That was on 12/12/18, so nearly a year ago.

I bet you get pretty close to that, but because of the longer OACL you could increase the charge by .1 or maybe even .2 grs. without it being +P in pressure. But if it comes in at around 1150 FPS, it should perform pretty well without increasing the powder charge/velocity. You will likely be able to load longer for the DW. 1911s tend to have longer chambers/throats. If you need it, I wrote an article on establishing 9mm OACL for a specific bullet for a specific pistol. Might be 2 or 3 pages back at: https://blog.westernpowders.com/

For target loads at around 130 power factor, I'm loading it at 1.132"/28.75mm for the Canik because it tests a little over 1.150" Max Possible OACL.

[K-Texas]

OOO000ooops! A bit more than 2 or 3 pages back at the blog. See what getting old will do for you? The article actually appeared a bit over 4 years ago, so I'll just post the link: https://blog.westernpowders.com/2015/11 ... e-success/

A note about the SIERRA 9mm data. For whatever reason, the test pistol used was a 4" Hi-Point. But that's not the reason I recommend it when data is not listed for a particular bullet. The .355" SIERRA 125 gr. JHP represents a worse-case-scenario for me, and why I recommend it for 124/125 gr. JHPs when no data can be found. The ogive, which is actually truncated cone shaped, is quite short, This results in the bullet shank being quite long. In fact, I don't know of a longer shank JHP at this weight. Then, to take it a step further SIERRA, and Lyman, who used the same bullet in their Pistol and Revolver III manual, as well as the complete 49th edition, the bullet is loaded quite short at 1.075". It can be loaded longer if your pistol barrel allows. One of the reasons I wrote that article.

Listed OACLs you see in data are often the minimum OACL you should load to. How long you can load a bullet is determined by the chamber/throat/leade in the barrel of the pistol you plan to load for. If you load for several pistols, but only want to use a single OACL, than you'll need to load them for the pistol with the shortest chamber. But all of that is in the article.

[flechero]

Good info, thank you.

I agree with you on length. I always load a new bullet by taking a dummy and seat it down a few thou at a time until it plunks and rotates freely and then a few more until it feeds smoothly. I load to the longest length my shortest bbl can handle in a caliber. ( but for rifle I load for a specific gun).

I don't have access to the Sierra manual but my online search suggests the Sierra data may be 6.1gr. of Silhouette. Accurate/Ramshot manual list max of Silhouette with the Sierra 125 JHP as 5.1gr. with other 124 gr. projectiles going 5.4gr to 5.9 gr..

The variance between bullet and powder manufacturer's data always intrigues me.

[flechero]

and Ford Blue...

Run those up near max, they have a propensity to get stuck.





Couldn't resist- pulled way too many fords from the mud in my younger days!


Truck jokes aside, your powder coating is really looking good!

[K-Texas]

Good info, thank you.

I agree with you on length. I always load a new bullet by taking a dummy and seat it down a few thou at a time until it plunks and rotates freely and then a few more until it feeds smoothly. I load to the longest length my shortest bbl can handle in a caliber. ( but for rifle I load for a specific gun).

I don't have access to the Sierra manual but my online search suggests the Sierra data may be 6.1gr. of Silhouette. Accurate/Ramshot manual list max of Silhouette with the Sierra 125 JHP as 5.1gr. with other 124 gr. projectiles going 5.4gr to 5.9 gr..

The variance between bullet and powder manufacturer's data always intrigues me.

Yep, plunk and spin. One of my suggestions for those who are looking for a good reloading manual is to get one with pressure rated data. It's a must if you want to know a powder's characteristics for a given caliber. One reason that those who provide burn-rate charts advise that placement on a burn-rate chart can not be used as an indicator of a powder's charge-weight, because burn-rate charts come from closed bomb testing. A vessel of the same size. Powders can definitely vary by caliber.

I'm familiar with all of Western's data going back to 2001, when I first started using them. It reminds me of some things I saw with Vihta Vuori powders that I was using before then. Some powder manufacturers/suppliers who provide data, don't exactly tell us everything about how the data was collected. There are recent changes that would require a thread of its own to explain, so here's my take. So far as I know, up until 2015, SAAMI had specs for the 9mm, in particular, that allowed a tolerance range as far as cartridge and chamber dimensions. That, unfortunately, allows the data provider to work at any given dimension they care to use, so long as it's in the tolerance range. If you want to show the highest pressure possible for liability concerns, the data may have been collected from barrels that were at the minimum of the tolerance range. Shorter chambers and tighter bores for example.

The best way I know to make this point without causing offense to the guys in the Western Ballistic's lab comes from a simple question regarding the +P data they list. Just take it as my opinion that I know their powders. I have used both True Blue and Silhouette extensively for making higher velocity 124 gr. JHP loads in 9 x 19mm. No 7 is one of a kind for 147 gr. JHP loads as I've probably mentioned and it's been almost two decades since I last loaded a 115 gr, JHP. No 5 is somewhat similar to True Blue but lacks the pressure stability and ballistic uniformity. So knowing that, my question is why would they show +P data for inappropriate powders that burn too fast for even a slight advantage in velocity? Another thread on the subject of "The Point of Diminishing Returns."

Also consider that while SIERRA and SPEER do not show pressure data, which I prefer, that certainly does not mean that the loads are not pressure tested. About as clear as mud, right? I used to say quite often that every handloader should have at least one Lyman manual. The reason being that the data is pressure tested in most cases. It's not the answer to all questions, but some things are left for the handloader to decide based on the information available. As a result, I don't typically use Western's data for the 9 x 19mm. I do not believe that the component makers who provide handload data, even if not pressure rated data, as in the case of SIERRA, SPEER, Nosler and Hornady, ever exceed the Maximum Average Pressure rating for the cartridge. If the highest charge comes from the SIERRA manual, I trust that they know the pressure rating. And while Lyman data is pressure rated, they test in Copper Units of Pressure, CUP, as Hodgdon does also in some cases. Lyman does not always load to MAP, which for 9 x 19mm is 33,000 CUP, 35,000 PSI per SAAMI.

[mrvmax]

I loaded up some 6.5 PRC for my new Savage High Country rifle. There is not a whole lot of load info yet so I called Barnes and Berger to get some load info. I already had some 110 gain TTSX bullets from Barnes that I am trying and some new Berger 140 grain Elite Hunter bullets. I have some Norma MRP powder so I am using that but I need to buy some H1000 to try. I have a lot of powder on hand but not many that I can load 6.5 prc with. Both of these loads will be used for hunting and as long as I can keep under 1 moa with them i will be pleased. If anyone else is loading 6.5 PRC let me know what you are loading up.

[flechero]

Also consider that while SIERRA and SPEER do not show pressure data, which I prefer, that certainly does not mean that the loads are not pressure tested. About as clear as mud, right? I used to say quite often that every handloader should have at least one Lyman manual. The reason being that the data is pressure tested in most cases.

Agreed- I keep a lyman manual for that exact reason... reading into the pressure data, you can see, generally, what powders will spike (think clays in 9mm/.45acp) and which ones are safer to push in a given caliber. With some basic pressure caution, I contrast 2-3 manuals worth of velocity data to see where I want to start with any given load.


And to get back on topic, I reorganized my tool and components shelves and cabinet last night.... making room for a possible caliber addition. (possible Christmas gifts)

[jason812]

Andy, those look good. I like the Ford blue. You need to get on the Zombie wagon and do some neon green

[K-Texas]

I loaded up some 6.5 PRC for my new Savage High Country rifle. There is not a whole lot of load info yet so I called Barnes and Berger to get some load info. I already had some 110 gain TTSX bullets from Barnes that I am trying and some new Berger 140 grain Elite Hunter bullets. I have some Norma MRP powder so I am using that but I need to buy some H1000 to try. I have a lot of powder on hand but not many that I can load 6.5 prc with. Both of these loads will be used for hunting and as long as I can keep under 1 moa with them i will be pleased. If anyone else is loading 6.5 PRC let me know what you are loading up.

mrvmax, here's something that might help. If Quik Load is to be believed, scroll down to the 4th post and you'll find a list of powders suitable for the 6.5 CM. The poster used a 140 gr. Hornady SST and gave the QL stats for all powders at 60,000 PSI. What the benchrest guys are after are powders that are close to 100% load density at 60,000 PSI because the 6.5 CM pressure limit is 62,000 PSI where when reached, they are looking for 107% load density, which means 7% compression.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thread ... s.3941829/

MRP is listed, and as you will see, it gave very good velocity at 60,000 PSI with load density at 106.7% while 99.7% of the powder burned completely. I have had some experience with the Norma powders, and there are 2 that are very close to 100% load density at 60,000 PSI. I chose Norma URP for that reason. The other is N204 that I have loaded in 7mm-08 REM. Western has 2 other suitable powders on the list with Ramshot Hunter and AA 4350. In general terms, it is the 4350 class of powders that seem to do best in the 6.5 CM. RL16 & 17, Accurate, IMR and Hodgdon 4350, naturally and Norma N204 and URP and some others fall into that group.

Evidently, at the time that the list was generated, RL16 was not available. One of the things I was pursuing is which Bofors powder is sold to Alliant for RL16. There are some crossovers since Bofors makes Norma powders and sells some to Alliant as well. Contrary to some opinions they are not all the same. RL15 and N203B are very similar. Down to .1 gr. in a test conducted. RL22 is Alliant's version of MRP. Some believe that RL19 is based on N204, but that's not the case. The powder that Bofors sells to Alliant for RL19 is slightly slower burning. But on the list, look at the powder immediately below Norma URP and you'll find Bofors RP19. I haven't been able to confirm it as yet, but it looks quite possible that Bofors RP19 could be the powder sold to Alliant for RL16.

The chart is very useful for powder selection, and provides some excellent information.