It's Time for National Reciprocity

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Vol Texan
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#31

Post by Vol Texan » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:24 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
remanifest wrote:Even with reciprocity, if I'm expected to follow the rules of the state, I wouldn't be able to bring any of the guns that I own to California, which is no good for me - my family is there, and I'm generally not willing to part with my guns/reduce magazine capacity.
Perfection is the enemy of progress.
Agreed.

National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.

Incremental wins is how the left does it for all manner of topics. We should do the same.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#32

Post by anygunanywhere » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:01 pm

Vol Texan wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:
remanifest wrote:Even with reciprocity, if I'm expected to follow the rules of the state, I wouldn't be able to bring any of the guns that I own to California, which is no good for me - my family is there, and I'm generally not willing to part with my guns/reduce magazine capacity.
Perfection is the enemy of progress.
Agreed.

National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.

Incremental wins is how the left does it for all manner of topics. We should do the same.
This.
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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CleverNickname
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#33

Post by CleverNickname » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:40 pm

Liberty wrote:This is going to put major pressure from the voters to give them equal rights to those of outa staters.
Haha, no. If a majority of the voters wanted to have shall-issue licenses, then they'd already be voting that way.
Vol Texan wrote: National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.
I'd be willing to bet that if reciprocity passed, many/most departments in may-issue states would have a policy that anyone carrying under a license from another state be arrested. They're going to want a test case to try and get the law overturned.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#34

Post by jed » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:00 pm

CleverNickname wrote:
Liberty wrote:This is going to put major pressure from the voters to give them equal rights to those of outa staters.
Haha, no. If a majority of the voters wanted to have shall-issue licenses, then they'd already be voting that way.
Vol Texan wrote: National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.
I'd be willing to bet that if reciprocity passed, many/most departments in may-issue states would have a policy that anyone carrying under a license from another state be arrested. They're going to want a test case to try and get the law overturned.
Say national reciprocity passes, who will enforce the new federal law? Heck, we can't even get our own state laws enforced, see http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=87351

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#35

Post by Flightmare » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:39 am

Image
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Scott Farkus
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#36

Post by Scott Farkus » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Vol Texan wrote:Agreed.

National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.

Incremental wins is how the left does it for all manner of topics. We should do the same.
You can do that already under federal law, but you have to keep your unloaded gun locked in the trunk separare from your ammo, so fat lot of good that's going to do you if you need it. Many of us fear a national reciprocity law would have similar restrictions to appease non-free states so as to also be effectively useless.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#37

Post by Scott Farkus » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:31 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:You ignore the fact that Congress doesn't need national reciprocity to pass gun laws; they have been doing it since at least 1934. Other major pieces of gun legislation was passed in 1968, 1986, and 1994. The slippery slope argument doesn't fly -- the feds are already at the bottom of the hill.

Chas.
Point well taken, and this is one of the arguments I've been using in favor of not allowing businesses open to the public to forbid carry. We've already established that the government can dictate thousands of requirements upon private businesses, so requiring them to allow at least licensed concealed carry doesn't seem at all egregious.

Something about national reciprocity just throws up red flags to me, though. The problems this is trying to solve involve, in my mind at least, real and flagrant constitutional violations that the courts need to be blowing up (including many aspects of the various gun control acts cited). But I'm keeping an open mind about it and welcome this discussion. And I am greatly encouraged that the election of Trump at least opens this and other avenues - had Hillary won, we'd be staring into a very dark abyss indeed.

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#38

Post by Pawpaw » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:54 pm

Scott Farkus wrote:
Vol Texan wrote:Agreed.

National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.

Incremental wins is how the left does it for all manner of topics. We should do the same.
You can do that already under federal law, but you have to keep your unloaded gun locked in the trunk separare from your ammo, so fat lot of good that's going to do you if you need it. Many of us fear a national reciprocity law would have similar restrictions to appease non-free states so as to also be effectively useless.
As long as you don't have any of that evil "cop-killer" hollowpoint ammunition anywhere in the car. The ammo alone can get you a free trip to the greybar hotel.

Keep in mind that those Texas license plates automatically make you a target in many liberal enclaves, not just NJ. :tiphat:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#39

Post by parabelum » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:55 pm

Vol Texan wrote:
Agreed.

National Reciprocity, at it's very least, would allow me to drive through the communist state of New Jersey on the way to Vermont without fear of getting thrown in the slammer.

Incremental wins is how the left does it for all manner of topics. We should do the same.

My wife and I will drive to VT in couple of weeks going the lengthy route through KY, WV, PA...strategically going through the shortest NY path into VT. Hopefully no more then 4 hrs thru fascist NY.
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#40

Post by srothstein » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:10 pm

I suggest that we look at the current federal reciprocity laws for what to fix before we work on this. I am referring to LEOSA and FOPA, and how some areas have ignored them or interpreted them, including federal district courts.

NJ and Port of New York have pointedly ignored LEOSA and have bad records with FOPA. Remember the case of the man whose flight was cancelled/missed and he was given a hotel room overnight. They even gave him his luggage back, which is where the problem occurred. When he went back to the airport, he was arrested and courts upheld the conviction saying his overnight stop made him not traveling any longer.

I like making the reciprocity national and mandatory, but we need to look at these cases and make sure we fix them in the new law and the existing ones.
Steve Rothstein


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#41

Post by hovercat » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:54 pm

While I would like to see National Reciprocity, I do not see it providing much 2A relief to firearm restrictive states. An aggressive enforcement of Heller, on a level of the Civil Rights Act, would be more effective.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#42

Post by juno106 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:47 pm

IIRC, years ago (ok, maybe not that many), the Fed's "persuaded" all 50(?) states to change their individual state laws to set the speed limit at 55.

There was no federal law that made the speed limit 55, but rather, federal "persuasion" for the states to enact changes to their own laws.

Might such "persuasion" with a (R) President, (R) Senate, and (R) House, work with reciprocity ?

Would this address some/many of the concerns that have been posted?


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#43

Post by NotRPB » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:18 am

Nationwide Concealed-Carry RECIPROCITY Bill Introduced in Congress on Day One!
Second Amendment
BREITBART --
On January 3–the first day of the 115th Congress–Representative Richard Hudson (R-NC-8) introduced national concealed carry reciprocity legislation.

full article at https://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-2 ... on-day-one

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#44

Post by CleverNickname » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:45 am

Good, it fixes the issue with carrying in school zones in other states and allows carry on Army Corp of Engineers land too.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

#45

Post by mr1337 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:48 am

NotRPB wrote:Nationwide Concealed-Carry RECIPROCITY Bill Introduced in Congress on Day One!
Second Amendment
BREITBART --
On January 3–the first day of the 115th Congress–Representative Richard Hudson (R-NC-8) introduced national concealed carry reciprocity legislation.

full article at https://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-2 ... on-day-one
Best news I've read all year!
Keep calm and carry.

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