Wait 'til next year

Relevant bills filed and their status

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tomneal
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Wait 'til next year

#1

Post by tomneal » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:25 pm

It's not too early to start our list for 2009.

Texas

- CHL is a valid ID

- SB501 - 30-06 has no meaning when cities post their facilities. Make it a Felony for the any government official that posts a building in Texas, including federal buildings. Also includes the Houston Red Badge of CHL. (This falls under the heading of Dream Big.)

- Parking lot bill. (I think this is the only bill we pushed, that didn't make it in 2007.)

- CHL holders packing in school buildings and events.

- Courts and professional sporting events must have secure storage available or they can't post.

- No voluntary searches of CHL holders vehicles. If the officer has probable cause, get a warrant, otherwise NO!





Federal

- Buy and sell guns anywhere in the US. If they are doing the background check in Washington, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to buy a gun in Nevada.

- Carry in National Parks

- Carry in Post Offices. (Did I read that it's only a $50 fine? Maybe I'll just spot them the $50 if they spot me and take offense.)

- Make it legal to use abbreviations on a 4473 yellow form. Remove County from the form. (TX, Hou., Y, N Should all be ok.) (If you know the city, state, and zip, Why do you need the county?)

- Dissolve the BATFE.
Last edited by tomneal on Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CHL

#2

Post by USMC-COL » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:09 am

I'd like to see the CHL cover ALL legal weapons such as legal knives as defined by state law (less than 5.5" blade). There are jurisdictions within TX that prohibit any knife that locks - such as San Antonio.

The CHL could be similar to Florida's CWFL (concealed weapons and firearms license). In FL if you have a CWFL you can carry any weapon not otherwise prohibited by law.
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KBCraig
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Re: Wait 'til next year

#3

Post by KBCraig » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:01 am

tomneal wrote:It's not too early to start our list for 2009.
GMTA! I've been thinking about "Goals for 2009" for a few days now.

- SB501 - 30-06 has no meaning when cities post their facilities. Make it a Felony for the any government official that posts a building in Texas, including federal buildings. Also includes the Houston Red Badge of CHL. (This falls under the heading of Dream Big.)
I prefer a different approach. (Although I do like the idea of attaching personal criminal liability to any government official who orders signs posted without authority -- the feds call it "Deprivation of rights under color of law", and it's a felony.)

I suggest a back-door approach. Neuter PC 30.05 by eliminating 30.05(d), which enhances criminal trespass from Class C (same as a speeding ticket) to Class A (up to 1 year in jail), if in possession of a "deadly weapon". That enhancement is why 30.06 was so important to pass: CHLs had much more to lose if they "trespassed" beyond a "no guns" sign.

Federal

- Buy and sell guns anywhere in the US. If they are doing the background check in Washington, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to buy a gun in Nevada.
The problem is that some states are their own point of contact for NICS. Not all calls go to the NICS center. Some states are NICS for long guns, and state police for handguns.

And then the bigger picture is that it's not the federal government's business who buys a gun from whom, in which state.

- Carry in National Parks

- Carry in Post Offices. (Did I read that it's only a $50 fine? Maybe I'll just spot them the $50 if they spot me and take offense.)
Solution: Eliminate all federal "no guns" zones. Don't allow any federal agency (including DoD) to have rules that are more restrictive than those of the state where that site is located.

- Make it legal to use abbreviations on a 4473 yellow form. Remove County from the form. (TX, Hou., Y, N Should all be ok.) (If you know the city, state, and zip, Why do you need the county?)
This is administrative, not legislative. ATF makes their own forms, and the rules for filling them out.

Which leads us to:
- Dissolve the BATF.
I know just how to do that. :grin:


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Re: Wait 'til next year

#4

Post by swiven » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:51 am

KBCraig wrote:
tomneal wrote: Dissolve the BATF.
I know just how to do that. :grin:
QFT :grin:

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Re: Wait 'til next year

#5

Post by stevie_d_64 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:10 am

KBCraig wrote:Which leads us to:
- Dissolve the BATF.
I know just how to do that. :grin:
:smilelol5:

Somehow I knew that was what you were going to say...Yep, that might solve a few things, you betcha!

I still like the tweeks Tom is talking about...A couple have been pet peeves of mine for many years...But I believe we will eventually get to a point (hopefully) where most of this becomes a non-issue...But understand the other side of this equation is not going to just go away...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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barres
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#6

Post by barres » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:49 am

If we're making a wish-list for 2009, I'd like to include elimination of TDCJ's prohibition of carrying a firearm when traveling on official business. Not only do they prohibit carrying in a state-owned vehicle, but their policy also prohibits employees from carrying in private vehicles if used when in the commission of official duties.

In other words, if I carried to work and left my handgun secured in my car (which is allowed under policy), but then had to drive across town to another TDCJ facility for official purposes in my own vehicle, I've just violated policy and could lose my job. With the Castle Doctrine passing, pulling the teeth out of any civil suit in a justified shooting, I can't see why TDCJ would need to keep this policy. It also stinks for those of us who have to make long (several days in some cases) trips for official business.

Read section (a)(3) for the official details of current polcy:
Texas Administrative Code, Title 37, Part 6, RULE §151.21
Remember, in a life-or-death situation, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Barre

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#7

Post by anygunanywhere » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:09 am

Open Carry no permit required.

Concealed carry anywhere LEO can carry.

Civil liability if private business post 30.06. If the malls are held to damages for failure to protect, the signs will come down.

Parking lot storage - Civil liability if private business restricts legal possession in parking lots. Make them responsible for what is in their policy manuals. Private business is extending their impact into what employees do away from work - smoking, alcohol consumption. They make drug tests mandatory to "protect the workplace".

I store my handgun in my vehicle at work. My employer knows we do this and it is not a problem since the parking area is quite secure. I would like legislation that requires locked storage.

LEO is not required to disarm when entering facilities with hazardous flammable substances. Why should we?

Anygun
"The Second Amendment is absolute...If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

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Liberty
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Re: Wait 'til next year

#8

Post by Liberty » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:26 pm

tomneal wrote:It's not too early to start our list for 2009.

Texas

- CHL is a valid ID
Not a big deal to me I have enough official IDs I'd rather make the laws so as I wouldn't need a CHL.
tomneal wrote: - SB501 - 30-06 has no meaning when cities post their facilities. Make it a Felony for the any government official that posts a building in Texas, including federal buildings. Also includes the Houston Red Badge of CHL. (This falls under the heading of Dream Big.)
I don't care to much about this one. the 30.06 is useless, everyone with with a CHL should know it. If they don't they didn't pay enough attention in their class.
tomneal wrote: - Parking lot bill. (I think this is the only bill we pushed, that didn't make it in 2007.)
Important but if the bill takes on the same form as it did this session I hope they don't bother. Having to notify the employer in writing was a real dumb idea. After all the effort that went into the bill securing CHL records even.
tomneal wrote:
- CHL holders packing in school buildings and events.
This one is critical its all about saving and protecting young lives. This should have priority over any of the the other bills.
tomneal wrote: - Courts and professional sporting events must have secure storage available or they can't post.
I can't get excited about this one although I stand behind in principle. I see too many brawls and fights in the stands. I can't see anyone who is concerned about situational awareness wanting to go to a major league sports event armed or unarmed. Well maybe an autoracing event. I've never seen a fight in one of those.
tomneal wrote: - No voluntary searches of CHL holders vehicles. If the officer has probable cause, get a warrant, otherwise NO!
What does CHL have to do with the search? I agree with the no searches of anyones vehicle.

I would add to the list open carry. We should be allowed with or without a CHL. Well maybe we should be allowed to carry if we sport a an official CHL badge.
tomneal wrote:
Federal

- Buy and sell guns anywhere in the US. If they are doing the background check in Washington, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to buy a gun in Nevada.

- Carry in National Parks

- Carry in Post Offices. (Did I read that it's only a $50 fine? Maybe I'll just spot them the $50 if they spot me and take offense.)

- Make it legal to use abbreviations on a 4473 yellow form. Remove County from the form. (TX, Hou., Y, N Should all be ok.) (If you know the city, state, and zip, Why do you need the county?)

- Dissolve the BATF.
All I have to say about this is that the NRA is pretty good about fighting defensive battles, While states all over the country are making aggressive progress. The NRA is mostly about fighting the defensive legislative battles. They haven't made much forward progress. I think any forward progress is unlikely in the near future. I really hope I am wrong.
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#9

Post by srothstein » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:58 pm

I have a simple goal for the federal government. I just want something like the following law passed:

Whereas, the Congress believes that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees a fundamental right to each and every individual in the country; and

Whereas, the following laws are in contradiction to that Amendment,

Therefore, Title 18, Chapter 44, of the United States Code, is hereby repealed.
Steve Rothstein

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#10

Post by flintknapper » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:43 pm

srothstein wrote:I have a simple goal for the federal government. I just want something like the following law passed:

Whereas, the Congress believes that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees a fundamental right to each and every individual in the country; and

Whereas, the following laws are in contradiction to that Amendment,

Therefore, Title 18, Chapter 44, of the United States Code, is hereby repealed.

Stephan,

If you'll run for office...I will definitely vote for you!
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#11

Post by lrb111 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:30 pm

flintknapper wrote:
srothstein wrote:I have a simple goal for the federal government. I just want something like the following law passed:

Whereas, the Congress believes that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees a fundamental right to each and every individual in the country; and

Whereas, the following laws are in contradiction to that Amendment,

Therefore, Title 18, Chapter 44, of the United States Code, is hereby repealed.

Stephan,

If you'll run for office...I will definitely vote for you!
:iagree: I'm good with that.

I want the concept that your CHL becomes invalid or is unattainable because of school loans or taxes stricken.
We threw a lot of tea in a harbor over that once.

I would keep the penalty in place for unpaid child support. Because i have seen situations involving child support get really nasty, and result in jail for the one in default.
Ø resist

Take away the second first, and the first is gone in a second.

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nitrogen
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#12

Post by nitrogen » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:33 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:Open Carry no permit required.

Concealed carry anywhere LEO can carry.

Civil liability if private business post 30.06. If the malls are held to damages for failure to protect, the signs will come down.

Parking lot storage [snip]
I like this, but I also realise it's a hard pill for some to swalllow. I'd settle for something like this:

Unlicensed open carry everywhere a CHLer is currently allowed to carry.
Even the possability of unliensed concealed carry (!!!) in these places as well.

Licensed CHLers should have the right to carry anywhere they want to, anytime, anyplace. (I can possibly see exceptions for prisons and in courtrooms, in court, not blanketly in courthouses)

As far as liability, you'd have to offer some type of carrot to get the property rights people to accept the stick. I can't think of an idea that I like, but the best one I have is something along the lines of offering some tax discount or tax hike if you post.
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#13

Post by stroo » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:40 pm

In order of priority:

1. Eliminate no gun zones at both the Federal and State level unless the entity uses metal detectors on everyone and provides armed trained security as in airports and courthouses. This is probably going to be a multiyear effort however.

2. Parking lot carry regardless of employer policies.

3. Open carry.

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#14

Post by troglodyte » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:41 pm

While I'm all for the reinstatement of the 2nd Amendment, I think we are making headway in baby steps. I would like to be able to wave my magic wand and make it an overnight change, alas, it is in the shop. We need to work like the anti's have, small steps, get our foot in the door, open the door a little wider each year. Look at the gun control situation. It didn't happen over night but rather by gradually pulling our rights out from under us slowly and methodically. Kinda like boiling a frog...

+1 to LEO places of carry, schools, open carry (although I don't think it is tactically a good idea...but that's a different thread), civil liability for businesses that post, and parking lot carry.

Because schools may be a sticking point, especially if it includes/excludes employees (i.e. teachers), include an endorsement that allows a teacher to carry (regardless of district policy) if they have completed a special training course. During my educational career I have had to get bus driving endorsements, a CDL, passenger endorsement, and lately the new school bus endorsement. Why can't we have endorsements on our CHL?

Now before y'all go off the deep end and roast me on this one, reread my first paragraph. Baby steps. If we can get firearms allowed in schools, even at the burden of extra training. Isn't that one step closer to freely carrying. I don't particularly like the idea either but if I can take...say...basic police training, Level 3 security guard training or something similar, I have gotten a little closer to the ultimate goal. After some time, we can work on relaxing those requirements. To be honest with you while I'm thinking this over, special training may not be that bad an idea.

Carry at school...instead of getting Starbuck's gift cards (I don't drink coffee) for xmas, my students could give me a box of shells. Now that would be a great xmas present.

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tomneal
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Schools / baby steps

#15

Post by tomneal » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:44 pm

Schools / baby steps

Maybe the baby step is:

Colleges and universities.
Many of our legislatures considered that after Virginia Tech.

There wasn't time in 2007

It might be a tough sell in 2009, but...
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