A test for Anti-concealed carry

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rdcrags
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A test for Anti-concealed carry

#1

Post by rdcrags » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:44 am

A suggestion: If someone tells you they are against concealed carry because the carrier doesn’t have enough training and therefore creates a hazardous situation, ask them to take this test: You are in a store with your two kids and a BG enters and starts shooting at people indiscriminately, walking in your direction. A man to your right draws a concealed handgun and points it toward the BG. Will you yell “Don’t shoot! You don’t have enough training! You may hit a bystander!”? Or, will you yell “Stop him! Stop him! He’ll kill us all!”?
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#2

Post by cirus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:22 am

I've tried talking to anti concealed carry and anti gunners. Proposed similar scenarios just like yours and still couldnt get through. Some people can't seen the light until it's to late. You can't fix stupid. :headscratch


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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#3

Post by Tex1961 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:30 am

I know most anti-gunners detest facts, but.... Explain there millions of law abiding CHL holders carrying every single day.... How many stories have you heard of them accidentally shooting the wrong person or using their gun in a crime... Then ask how many stories are there of a CHL holder saving lives, even saving a few cops as well...

Alas, I doubt you'll ever get through to them, but at least this is another argument to use.

Or... Invite them to the range and let them see for themselves what shooting is all about.
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AJSully421
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#4

Post by AJSully421 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:08 am

Psychological Projection is the most common psychological phenomenon in humans.

Nearly every anti-gunner that I have ever know and had some sort of relationship with who says something about non-LEO carrying and either "snapping" or just shooting someone for no reason, that individual has had a temper, or has otherwise shown themselves to not be able to control their emotions. They are projecting their lack of basic discipline onto me and everyone else who carries.

Next is the "lack of training", which for someone who has never fired a gun, it is pretty easy for them to think that it is nearly impossible to hit a bad guy under stress. I remember watching a documentary that was set in Desert Storm when I was around 14-15, and some guy hits some Iraqis at around 300 yards with an M16 with irons only. I had fired an AR once at that point, and only at around 100 yards, and could barely keep rounds on a B27 target, so for a soldier to be able to do this at 300 seemed super-human to me. Now, 20 years later, and with lots of practice, I can hit an 12" plate at 300 with irons all day long. I think that someone who has never fired a gun will always feel like I did at 14.

So basically, ignorance mixed with projection, and a big helping of emotional problems on top... and that is how you get an anti-gunner.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#5

Post by Noggin » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:23 am

rdcrags wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:44 am
A suggestion: If someone tells you they are against concealed carry because the carrier doesn’t have enough training and therefore creates a hazardous situation, ask them to take this test: You are in a store with your two kids and a BG enters and starts shooting at people indiscriminately, walking in your direction. A man to your right draws a concealed handgun and points it toward the BG. Will you yell “Don’t shoot! You don’t have enough training! You may hit a bystander!”? Or, will you yell “Stop him! Stop him! He’ll kill us all!”?
I suspect that if you tried to pose that situation to most anti-gunners, they will simply interupt you saying "that could never happen". Even if you tried to cite a real life example similar scenario they would say something about that just being a bit of alt right fake news or that you did not have all the facts or it is such a rare freak event it is not worthy of consideration. Then respond by claiming that more innocent people are killed by untrained clumsy people with guns. Leftists always refuse to debate you on your terms and never answer any question that you pose them. This is not confined to the gun debate but pretty much anything else from economics to immigration. The leftist policy is to make you debate their point not your's they know they can't win your argument so they will try to force you to accept their alternative issue.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#6

Post by Jago668 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:22 pm

I always ask, "Would having as much training as a police officer be enough?". Considering I've had as much training as they get in most police academies, and practice weekly.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#7

Post by ralewis » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Jago668 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:22 pm
I always ask, "Would having as much training as a police officer be enough?". Considering I've had as much training as they get in most police academies, and practice weekly.
My opinion is the anti-carry / anti-gun population is separated broadly into 2 groups. Those that have a near religious objection and those that are uniformed or otherwise unfamiliar with statistics or that LTC'ers are the most law abiding segment of the populations. My friends most definitely fit this model. For those of in the later category, it's possible to have a rational discussion and they usually at least get to a point of being neutral to the idea of carry. For the former though, I actually think it's impolite to even try to have the discussion as it would be like discussing abortion/climate change/religion/which cola brand they prefer. For these friends who know I am a 2A supporter, we've sort of gotten to the point there it's just not discussed. They know/suspect I carry, but I don't advertise or advocate in their presence, and they don't argue against firearm related issues.

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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#8

Post by Paladin » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:33 pm

I see the anti's in a few camps. #1 you have the megalomaniacs/criminals that want more power over us. Of course they want us disarmed. #2 you have the people that have fallen for their propaganda and are willing to trade essential liberty for a false sense of security. #3 you have people that are afraid of guns because they don't know any better.

We are never going to change the mind of the #1 group. I'm willing to work with #2 & #3
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#9

Post by BigGuy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:45 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:08 am
Psychological Projection is the most common psychological phenomenon in humans.

Nearly every anti-gunner that I have ever know and had some sort of relationship with who says something about non-LEO carrying and either "snapping" or just shooting someone for no reason, that individual has had a temper, or has otherwise shown themselves to not be able to control their emotions. They are projecting their lack of basic discipline onto me and everyone else who carries.

Next is the "lack of training", which for someone who has never fired a gun, it is pretty easy for them to think that it is nearly impossible to hit a bad guy under stress. I remember watching a documentary that was set in Desert Storm when I was around 14-15, and some guy hits some Iraqis at around 300 yards with an M16 with irons only. I had fired an AR once at that point, and only at around 100 yards, and could barely keep rounds on a B27 target, so for a soldier to be able to do this at 300 seemed super-human to me. Now, 20 years later, and with lots of practice, I can hit an 12" plate at 300 with irons all day long. I think that someone who has never fired a gun will always feel like I did at 14.

So basically, ignorance mixed with projection, and a big helping of emotional problems on top... and that is how you get an anti-gunner.
This right here. :iagree: In total, I see a massive moral decline in the left. They don't believe in anything and roll their eyes at those who do. That moral decline is what drove me away for the Democratic party, and I suspect it is fueling the "walk away" movement. It is what kept bringing me to places like this where, supposedly I didn't agree with your politics. Eventually, I realized that WTSHTF, I'd rather have you guys at my back than them. I'm just praying that there are still enough people who believe in something other than socialism left in this country to turn the tide.

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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#10

Post by Lynyrd » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:03 pm

I had a long conversation with an anti gun person about a year ago. The gist of what they had to say was asking me what in the heck had happened to me to make me so afraid that I felt the need to carry a gun everywhere I go. They said that they could never live their life inside that type of fear.

Of course I explained that I wasn't "afraid" of anything and that my motivation had nothing to do with fear. Pragmatism, realism, and an unwillingness to be a helpless victim was my motivation. I just couldn't get through to him. I eventually decided that his fear of guns was the primary force behind his way of thinking. He was a 40 year old man who had never fired a gun. I offered to bring him out to my place and let him shoot some if he would listen to me on safe handling of a weapon. But he got very, very nervous and declined.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#11

Post by Abraham » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:25 pm

I've finally given up on trying to convince anti-gun types.

Oh sure, 'I' or 'you', they'll let defend them with 'our' firearm, but they wouldn't deign to defend themselves as it would sully their self-righteous, bogus belief system, as being anti-gun has become a quasi religious system for them...

If I know you're an anti-gun person and I happen to be there to possibly defend you with my gun - ain't gonna happen pseudo-Ghandi..live and die for your beliefs, I wouldn't want to sully you with my hated firearm.

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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#12

Post by jmra » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:54 am

rdcrags wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:44 am
A suggestion: If someone tells you they are against concealed carry because the carrier doesn’t have enough training and therefore creates a hazardous situation, ask them to take this test: You are in a store with your two kids and a BG enters and starts shooting at people indiscriminately, walking in your direction. A man to your right draws a concealed handgun and points it toward the BG. Will you yell “Don’t shoot! You don’t have enough training! You may hit a bystander!”? Or, will you yell “Stop him! Stop him! He’ll kill us all!”?
Reminds me of the old saying “There are no atheists in foxholes”. Just as you are not likely to persuade an atheist to turn to God outside of the foxhole, you are not likely to persuade the anti gunners until they are actually in the “foxhole”.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#13

Post by OneGun » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:03 pm

rdcrags wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:44 am
A suggestion: If someone tells you they are against concealed carry because the carrier doesn’t have enough training and therefore creates a hazardous situation, ask them to take this test: You are in a store with your two kids and a BG enters and starts shooting at people indiscriminately, walking in your direction. A man to your right draws a concealed handgun and points it toward the BG. Will you yell “Don’t shoot! You don’t have enough training! You may hit a bystander!”? Or, will you yell “Stop him! Stop him! He’ll kill us all!”?
I have my own, painful, version of that test: "My grandfather was murdered in his store in broad daylight when I was a boy. Do you think if he had a gun to defend himself, he might have been in attendance at my wedding 26 years later or do you think being defenseless was the best outcome?"

Rarely, does an anti-gunner ever try to persuade me otherwise after I ask this question. When they understand that my family are victims of violence, they have no words to offer other than their sympathies. I'm very blunt. When there are no criminals, I will not carry a gun. Until then I will defend myself and my family against threats to our lives.
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#14

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:39 am

i had a conversation at work yesterday about a popular trampoline park. I told the guy that I didn't like that place because they didn't allow people to carry. and he said "Well what do you need a gun at a trampoline park for anyway?" I said "The same reason they have fire extinguishers. You don't need them until you do." He shut up after that and the lady that was standing there thought for a minute and said "He has a point..."
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Re: A test for Anti-concealed carry

#15

Post by Liberty » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:46 am

Grundy1133 wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:39 am
i had a conversation at work yesterday about a popular trampoline park. I told the guy that I didn't like that place because they didn't allow people to carry. and he said "Well what do you need a gun at a trampoline park for anyway?" I said "The same reason they have fire extinguishers. You don't need them until you do." He shut up after that and the lady that was standing there thought for a minute and said "He has a point..."
What kind of holster do you use on a trampoline? While I detest most 30.06 signs, I can understand why the management might be afraid of handguns flying around from being improperly secured. Maybe if they have lockers or something.
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