Testing improper signage...

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Humanclone
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Testing improper signage...

#1

Post by Humanclone » Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm

When your see an improper(meaning not state standard) 30.06 or 30.07 sign posted in a store front, do any of you guys still carry inside that store. Improper sign = not legal technically. Or is it best to just avoid it and not carry.

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KLB
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#2

Post by KLB » Tue May 14, 2019 9:07 pm

It can be very expensive to be a test case, even if you win. And going to court offers no guarantees of anything--except spending money.

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carlson1
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#3

Post by carlson1 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:11 pm

I carry concealed and if the sign is not a legal sign why would I not ignore it?
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chasfm11
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#4

Post by chasfm11 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:31 pm

Only you can decide how much risk you are willing to take. Let's look at some specific examples:

1. 30.06 printed on 8 1/2"x11 piece of paper.
2. 30.06 and 30.07 wording mixed on the same sign
3. 30.06 sign not posted at an entrance but buried in a hallway with the building - letter size and wording are correct
4. 30.06 sign still has previous version language
5. 30.06 sign has proper sized letters and wording but is put on glass near entrance with nearly transparent letters that are impossible to read unless you are standing directly in front of the glass and know that the sign is there. Because of the background, the words do not appear if you are standing back from the glass 5 feet.

I've personally see all of these. I've chosen to ignore some but not all of them. I have to admit that I've gotten a lot more sloppy about concealment since OC passed. I would not have gone too many places printing significantly before and now routinely don't care how much I print as long as the gun is covered when I'm at least attempting to conceal. If I were to decide to walk past a non-compliant sign, I would be a lot more picky about my concealment. As a general rule, I don't consider walking past non-compliant signs because i really don't want those merchants to have my business, not because I'm concerned about their signs. Another factor to consider is how militant the merchant might be. I believe that some places put up signs and maybe even non-compliant signs because of corporate directives that local management might not agree with. Sprout's Farmers Market is not one of those and they have a very "iffy" 30.06/30.07 on the sliding doors. When the doors are open, the sign is almost impossible to read but I believe that they are such a progressive mentality company, any of the clerks would alert their management if they thought that they saw a concealed handgun. That said, I'm not sure that they are either observant enough or skilled enough in knowing what to look for. Whole Foods is another with a questionable sign but a militant mentality. Still good concealment would likely never be spotted.

Depending on where you are, if you are detected, the DA's office may do like NJ and NY and decide to make an example of you. The new DA in Dallas, I believe, would be one of those. My own local Chief has said that his officers would look at the sign and if it didn't comply, no action would be taken. We specifically talked about letter size, contrasting letters and wording. I would be less inclined to walk past a non-compliant sign in Grapevine, where the police leadership doesn't seem 2A friendly than Lewisville where the police leaders have spoken at local meetings as 2A advocates.
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Liberty
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#5

Post by Liberty » Wed May 15, 2019 7:20 am

I have no problems walking while concealed in an improper 30.06/07 sign. The odds of being spotted, and charged are very remote. The penalties as a class C are minor. Even if I were to be charged its hardly worth fighting. While the fight might be a matter of principle it's just not a big deal.

All this being said, I carry concealed 90% of the time, and there are very few posted businesses that I go to. The places that attempt inhibited carry, are typically government and medical facilities that I try to avoid as much as possible.
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strogg
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#6

Post by strogg » Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 am

Real or improper, I make it a point not to support those institutions with my money for the most part. There are far many more competitors I can take my business to. With that in mind, the only reason I'd go through an improper sign is to "stick it" to the proprietors, so to say. That doesn't work so well if they don't know I'm carrying now, does it? It also seems like a pretty immature thing to do, So I don't bother.


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Re: Testing improper signage...

#7

Post by crazy2medic » Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am

carlson1 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:11 pm
I carry concealed and if the sign is not a legal sign why would I not ignore it?
This!
I typically open carry, however if I come upon a improper 30.06 sign I'll cover up and proceed, besides I can fade a $200 ticket!
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montgomery
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#8

Post by montgomery » Wed May 15, 2019 8:51 am

Humanclone wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm
When your see an improper(meaning not state standard) 30.06 or 30.07 sign posted in a store front, do any of you guys still carry inside that store. Improper sign = not legal technically. Or is it best to just avoid it and not carry.
Given the fact that verbal notice is adequate notice, it is not worth the trouble for me to "test" the sign for compliance to the letter of the law. Personally, I go on intent and if the intent is to create a gun free zone, then they do not get my hard earned money. The only one that gets my hard earned money if I fail the test is a lawyer. Not thanks.

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RoyGBiv
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#9

Post by RoyGBiv » Wed May 15, 2019 9:46 am

I don't carry past 06/07 signs, even though, as an emergency response volunteer, I have a defense to prosecution.
-- I'll take my business elsewhere, usually. I do pick up things for WifeGBiv at Sprouts occasionally. I leave my gun in the car. Reluctantly.

I did catch myself a few weeks ago walking out of a store that had 06/07 posted in black letters on a clear glass window. I absolutely did not see the sign walking in. It was nearly transparent, except that the glare looking out from inside highlighted the sign that was not visible from the outside looking in.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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WTR
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#10

Post by WTR » Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am

I carry concealed and ignore any and all illegal signs.


Russell
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#11

Post by Russell » Wed May 15, 2019 10:58 am

Why worry about giving someone money that clearly doesn't trust you, as a customer, to defend yourself?

Add the stop-and-rob zone to texas3006.com and move on to someone that welcomes YOU, not criminals.
http://www.texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 and 30.07 Signage Database.
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WTR
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#12

Post by WTR » Wed May 15, 2019 11:11 am

Russell wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:58 am
Why worry about giving someone money that clearly doesn't trust you, as a customer, to defend yourself?

Add the stop-and-rob zone to texas3006.com and move on to someone that welcomes YOU, not criminals.

I had three Bank and a Credit Union I had to work in. I walked right pass their gun buster signs. The only time I disarm is at the Federal Reserve Bank or at a Bank vault ( which are properly posted and are armed to the teeth).


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Re: Testing improper signage...

#13

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri May 17, 2019 9:30 am

Liberty wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:20 am
I have no problems walking while concealed in an improper 30.06/07 sign. The odds of being spotted, and charged are very remote. The penalties as a class C are minor. Even if I were to be charged its hardly worth fighting. While the fight might be a matter of principle it's just not a big deal.

All this being said, I carry concealed 90% of the time, and there are very few posted businesses that I go to. The places that attempt inhibited carry, are typically government and medical facilities that I try to avoid as much as possible.
:iagree: This sums up my thoughts as well (except maybe 80% of the time for concealed, and 20% open carry ;-) ).

I'm sure that a slight chance at a $200 fine is "very expensive" to some. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford that potential cost, though. That said, if a chance at a $200 max fine is enough to keep you from entering a non-posted business that you believe doesn't like guns, then it would be inconsistent to not drive at least 5 mph under all posted speed limits just in case the cop's radar gun, or your speedometer isn't precisely accurate, etc.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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ScottDLS
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Re: Testing improper signage...

#14

Post by ScottDLS » Sat May 18, 2019 8:00 am

RoyGBiv wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:46 am
I don't carry past 06/07 signs, even though, as an emergency response volunteer, I have a defense to prosecution.
-- I'll take my business elsewhere, usually. I do pick up things for WifeGBiv at Sprouts occasionally. I leave my gun in the car. Reluctantly.

I did catch myself a few weeks ago walking out of a store that had 06/07 posted in black letters on a clear glass window. I absolutely did not see the sign walking in. It was nearly transparent, except that the glare looking out from inside highlighted the sign that was not visible from the outside looking in.
I generally still carry concealed with my LTC even though it only provides a defense to prosecution to 46.02. I’ve noticed many on duty LEO also carry handguns even though they only have a Defense. :evil2:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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