CHLer arrested in improperly posted hospital

[eagleeye]

Harris is a part of the "Texas Health Resourses" family of hospitals.

In a past life I used to sell to them.

I think the Code of Conduct they refer to is internal, not any state code.

Link to their web page.

http://www.texashealth.org/main.asp?id= ... /Hospitals

Hope she fights this on their dime. If not I think she will have a lot of help if the story is as it seems to be.

[Mike1951]

Just received this reply from Jim Dark, TSRA.

Can anyone provide the requested info?

Just watched the video. Agreed. We'll see about getting a hold of
her. It will be Monday morning before I have a chance to birddog her
or her husband down. I would also like to talk to the instructor in
the video. If you know any of these folks let me know.

Jim Dark

[Commander]

Harris is a part of the "Texas Health Resourses" family of hospitals.

I see that Presbyterian Healthcare System is part of this group. That might explain why I have seen the exact same sign at
a Presbyterian Hospital.

[RPBrown]

Makes you wonder what other laws they don't know.

I have emailed both the chief and the LT and expressed my displeasure at their lack of knowledge

[KC5AV]

Harris is a part of the "Texas Health Resourses" family of hospitals.

I see that Presbyterian Healthcare System is part of this group. That might explain why I have seen the exact same sign at
a Presbyterian Hospital.

I don't know that it has anything to do with the particular health system. The hospital where I work used to be a part of HCA, then Columbia, then Triad, now Community Health Systems. Several of the doors have old signs predating the 30.06 requirement for hospitals.

[NcongruNt]

Harris is a part of the "Texas Health Resourses" family of hospitals.

I see that Presbyterian Healthcare System is part of this group. That might explain why I have seen the exact same sign at
a Presbyterian Hospital.

I don't know that it has anything to do with the particular health system. The hospital where I work used to be a part of HCA, then Columbia, then Triad, now Community Health Systems. Several of the doors have old signs predating the 30.06 requirement for hospitals.

While I was researching new churches last year, I decided to study up on the Presbyterian church and its official stances. I was dismayed to find that the Presbyterian church is anti-gun, and holds the same position as the anti-gun lobby that the 2nd Amendment is for militias only. Here is the text of the official stance of the organization:

Gun Control

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has a thirty year history of support for gun control legislation. Beginning in the late 1960's, in response to the assassinations of public leaders, the General Assembly called for ". . . control [of] the sale and possession of fire arms of all kinds."1 In 1976, this statement was re-affirmed, but also specifically worded to ". . .not cover shotguns and rifles used legitimately by sportsmen. . .".2 In 1988, these and other statements supporting gun control were again reaffirmed.


A fuller statement was approved in 1990. In it, the General Assembly went on record as:

Support[ing] gun control at federal, state, and local levels as the most effective response to the present crisis of gun violence. . .
Call[ing] upon the United States government to establish meaningful and effective federal legislation to regulate the importation, manufacture, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigations and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale.

Urg[ing] the enactment of similar state and local laws, should such federal legislation be delayed.

Call[ing] upon government agencies at all levels to provide significant assistance to victims of gun violence and their families.



In 1998, the General Assembly added to its policy by calling on all Presbyterians to:

intentionally work toward removing handguns and assault weapons from our homes and our communities; and

seek ways to develop community strategies and create sanctuaries of safety for our children, so that all of our children may come to identify and value themselves and others as the precious children of the family of God that they are, and that they may come to learn peace for their lives and peace for this generation.4

You can find this directly on the Presbyterian Church website here:

http://www.pcusa.org/101/101-gun.htm

My guess is that the anti-gun policy is church-affiliated.




[EDIT]

And I just realized that this is a Methodist hospital. I did some quick searching, and found that the UMC organization has similar views:

Violence and, more particularly, violence to children and youth is a primary concern for United Methodists. We recognize and deplore violence which kills and injures children and youth. In the name of Christ, who came so that persons might know abundant life, we call upon the church to affirm its faith through vigorous efforts to curb and eliminate gun violence.

Gun violence is killing America's children. Based on statistics from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, there are an estimated 223 million firearms in the United States. Approximately one out of every four households owns a handgun. The risk of handgun violence to children and youth is more prevalent in the United States today than in any previous generation. Our communities and schools are so exposed to large numbers of privately owned guns that no mere attempts at providing slightly better security can match the awful threat of guns finding their way through our well-intentioned safety systems.

A significant total reduction in the numbers of guns in our communities is our goal in ministry. We serve and our society's children go to school amidst passionately violent segments of current youth culture. No appeals to individual autonomy are sufficient to justify our church's ignorance of this threat. The need to prevent the incidence of firearm-related injury and death is an issue of increasing concern and a priority U.S. public health issue. The United Methodist Church is among those religious communions calling for social policies and personal lifestyles that bring an end to senseless gun violence.

Gun violence in America's schools has emerged as a growing and disturbing trend. The United Methodist Church supports ministries that address the issue of violence and crime prevention for children/youth in urban areas through the Communities of Shalom. Violence is no longer confined to the streets of urban areas but has occurred at an increasing rate in suburban communities. Over the past several years, high-profile cases of school shootings involving suburban youth killing and injuring teachers and peers alike have once again brought the issue of guns and youth to the forefront of national attention.

These acts of senseless violence should not be an acceptable occurrence in any community: suburban, urban, or rural. The church must continue to address these issues of violence and develop programs to enrich the lives of all children/youth.

In light of the increase of gun violence affecting the lives of children and youth, we call upon The United Methodist Church to:

(1) convene workshops of clergy and other mental health care professionals from communities (urban, rural, and suburban) in which gun violence has had a significant impact in order to discuss ways by which The United Methodist Church should respond to this growing tragedy, and to determine what role the church should take in facilitating dialogue to address the issue of gun violence in our schools and among our children;

(2) educate the United Methodist community (parents, children, and youth) on gun safety, violence prevention, adult responsibility around gun violence prevention, and the public health impact of gun violence;

(3) identify community-based, state, and national organizations working on the issue of gun violence and seek their assistance to design education and prevention workshops around the issue of gun violence and its effect on children and youth;

(4) develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

(5) support federal legislation to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;

(6) call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;

(7) call upon the print, broadcasting, and electronic media, as well as the entertainment industry, to refrain from promoting gun usage to children;

(8) discourage the graphic depiction and glorification of violence by the entertainment industry, which greatly influences our society, and recommend that these issues be addressed through education and consciousness raising;

(9) call upon the federal and state governments to provide significant assistance to victims of gun violence and their families; and

(10) recommend that annual conferences make visible public witness to the sin of gun violence and to the hope of community healing.

(found at http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=937 )

[WildBill]

Is the hospital actually affilicated with the church? I don't see any indication on the website that it is.

[CHL/LEO]

I was dismayed to find that the Presbyterian church is anti-gun...

Add the Methodist Church to the list. I was born and raised in this church and when I first read the 2000 Resolution that the General Board sent out I went straight to our minister to get his opinion. He said that the General Board of the UMC sets the policy without any input from the local churches - they have the "we know best" attitude.

Anyway, here's some details: The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV), was originally formed in 1975 as the National Coalition to Ban Handguns (NCBH) "for the purposes of banning the importation, manufacture, sale, transfer, ownership and possession of handguns." In 1989, after expanding its efforts to include restrictions on all firearms, the group adopted its new name, Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. The United Methodist Church was the principle founder of CSGV.

To read UMC Resolutions that deal specifically with gun control just click here.

Pay particular attention to article #6: "call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;"

In my humble opinion, the governing body of churches shouldn't be involved in dictating edicts regarding gun control.

Back to this particular "victims" situation. If everything turns out as it appears to be so far, and she was not given proper notice regarding 30.06, then I hope she wins a very large settlement against the hospital and the city that employed the police officers. That department has an obligation to train its employees so that they are both knowledgeable and able to correctly enforce the law.

I'm also glad to hear that the TRSA is getting involved in this and helping her out. Perhaps the NRA can do the same as they have greater legal resources and funds available. What a great recruiting tool for both organizations - we need to encourage all non-members to join because of what they do help protect our rights.

[txinvestigator]

I just sent this email to the Bedford Chief;

Dear Chief Flory;


My name is txinvestigator and I am a Texas DPS licensed CHL instructor. I observed the video on Channel 8, WFAA last night regarding the woman your officer arrested for carrying a handgun into Harris Methodist in your city. Apparently she has a valid issued Texas Concealed Handgun License.

According to the news report and your Lt. Roberts she was arrested because it is illegal to carry a weapon into a hospital and there are no exceptions. An examination of Texas Law shows that is not true. I will print the entire law here so as to show I am not selectively listing sections of the law, and the relevant sections will be in red; (for purposes of this post, I have left out all except for the relative sections)


46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by License Holder.




(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:



(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;


(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As you can see in section (i), carry at a hospital under 46.035 (b)(4) does not apply unless a 30.06 sign was posted. According to the news report there was NO 30.06 sign.

If I am mistaken of any fact, or there are facts not known to me that would cause a charge to be proper against this woman, please accept my apology. If not, I pray that you immediately order all charges against her dropped, a public apology to the woman be issued, and immediate roll call training to your officers regarding all aspects of the CHL laws be completed. It is reprehensible for a law abiding citizen to have their liberty removed for something that is not a violation of the law. As a former Peace Officer, I can think of nothing that can cause a community to fear its own Law Enforcement Agency.

I would be happy to assist you in any way or speak to you regarding this;


Respectfully

txinvestigator
214-555-1515

[WildBill]

Great letter TXI!

[Lumberjack98]

Great letter TXI!

[txinvestigator]

Reponse already;

Highlighted sections were highlighted by me;

Dear Concerned Citizens:

Thank you for your interest and for taking the time to voice your opinions and concerns regarding the issue surrounding the arrest of a Concealed Handgun Licensee by members of the Bedford Police Department. We take your opinions and concern(s) seriously. Please let me take the opportunity to address our justification for the arrest and the circumstances surrounding it. Nothing that I am about to disclose is confidential and all information is subject to Texas Open Records Laws. I will address the issues in bullet points.

The "hospital" is Springwood Psychiatric Center. Affiliated and next
door to Harris H-E-B Hospital. Is houses patients being treated for a
variety of psychiatric disorders including drugs/alcohol addiction and
those that have attempted suicide (some with weapons)
It has a secure lockup area where some patients are being help under
emergency mental detention status therefore are not allowed to leave
under their own free will. In this secure lockup area, our own Bedford
Police Officers are not allowed to carry weapons; they must secure them
at the door even if we are responding to a disturbance.
The employee who was arrested had placed her handgun in her purse, had
put her purse in a room that was not secure and was within the look-down
area. Other employees and patients had access to the weapon.
The employee had been given prior written notice by her employer that
weapons are not allowed on the premises of the facility. It is our
opinion that regardless of the wording of the sign that was posted on
both the front and rear doors of the facility that this written notice
suffices for purposes of "notice" as required by statute.
The Tarrant County District Attorney's Office has been consulted
regarding this case and agrees that the arrest was credible.

As we do in all cases, a thorough review of the facts will be conducted by our Criminal Investigations Division who will consult further with the D.A.'s Office on this arrest.

As your Police Chief I, and all members of the Bedford Police Department are committed to enforcing the law legally, ethically and with integrity. I have made what I believe to be an aggressive and thorough initial review of the facts surrounding this issue and feel certain that we acted appropriately and within the law. However, if we find that after further discussions with the D.A.'s office that somehow we misinterpreted the law, I assure each of you we will take appropriate action.

Thank you,

David Flory
Bedford Police Chief