Empty Holster in Secure Locations?

[joe817]

Wow, maybe there's a reason she's on courthouse duty instead of out on the street with that kind of stupidity.

I agree. There's no excuse for a deputy to be that misinformed or that under trained, to deny access to anyone that had should be there.

TexC. I'd like to suggest(while this incident is still fresh in your mind) that you email this incident will all details to:

1. Tarrant County Sheriff Dee Anderson, and cc:
2. Executive Chief Deputy of the Operations Bureau(who is ultimately responsible for providing court house security)
3. Bailiff in charge of the Judicial Services Division(who supervises all court house bailiffs). These are the guys that are actually in the courtrooms. They are actually hired by the judge(s), and not the Sheriff, even though they wear similar uniforms as Sheriff's Deputies.

You might want to let Sheriff Anderson know that THEY may be in violation of the State and/or county law, by denying you entrance to the courts while unarmed, in full compliance with State law, and thusly adversly preventing you from fulfilling your obligationsas a citizen of Tarrant County to serving on a jury, a serious responsibility you are charged with.

If that would have been me, I would have handled it exactly the way you did. BUT, I would be on a mission afterward, to let EVERYBODY I could think of in the Sheriff's department, know that this is not acceptable, and everyone who works County Court security detail be trained properly, that an EMPTY holster VIOLATES NO LAW.

[srothstein]

I would add one more notice to the list of people to complain to. Also write to the Chief Administrative Judge. This is the judge who has full responsibility for the courthouse and how it is run. Let him know you are not trying to get out of the rescheduled jury duty, but you were not late. You were held up, in violation of the law, by a deptuy who tried to cause a panic by loudly accusing you of carrying a weapon when you were not. explain the whole situation and ask him to get with the Sheriff's Department to clarify both the rules and the way to deal with someone who is either in violation of the rules or in a gray area. I don't see you as in either the gray area or violation, but putting it that way might get a better response.

[TexCalhoun]

These are very good suggestions.

I will write this up very carefully tonight and pull the photo of the displayed signage off my phone for their review.

Maybe we can get this changed or the rules clarified and posted.

Thanks!

EDIT: I think I'll also take a photo of the Supertuck holster (so they will know it looks nothing like a gun or a weapon). Anything else I should include? Perhaps a photos of me wearing the holster to demonstrate that it is a concealable holster and that wearing it is highly unlikely to cause alarm?

[mr.72]

I would think pictures of the holster are completely moot. The holster is concealed (along with any gun in it). That's the whole point.

[joe817]

TexC that's a great idea! Glad you thought of it. Just the holster by itself, and one with you wearing it when you were denied access. I'd wear the same clothes as well.

If you need any help gathering names and email addresses, just let me know via PM. I'll be glad to help.

[MBGuy]

Wow, just wow. I hope I would have handled that just as even-headed, but I'm not sure. I might have pulled it out and given it to her and demanded that she show me how it is a weapon. I hope I wouldn't, but I've never been demonstrated such idiocy by an authority figure, not in person anyway.

On the other hand, one of the first times I went flying to Kentucky I asked TSA in Texas if I could have worn my holster and the answer was yes. Next time, and since then, I wore my holster...no problem.

[ELB]

A little more about my experience...


... I would have been frustrated, but not angry. ...

Wow. After reading all that, I was angry too. Good luck on your mission.

[Photoman]

I would have asked for a supervisor.

[Reloader]

Don't wear an empty holster in anyy Bexar county buildings either, with a metal detector. The rent a cops are NOT real LE personnel..Almost got shot by one until the REAL police told him I was NOT breaking the law.

[PappaGun]

Don't wear an empty holster in anyy Bexar county buildings either, with a metal detector. The rent a cops are NOT real LE personnel..Almost got shot by one until the REAL police told him I was NOT breaking the law.

Please elaborate...

[A-R]

Only thing I can think of that OP could have done differently is to not declare "empty holster". Just take off your belt and holster and place them in the bin and walk back through again. The half-asleep screeners might not even realize it's a holster. And if they do, then you're no worse off than you were by declaring it. Plus by walking through the metal detector and not setting it off again, doesn't that prove you don't have weapon on you - just an empty holster?

My thought is that by saying out loud the word "holster", this woman's brain instantly locked up processing the "holster = weapon" calculation in her head and nothing you said after that point was going to be able to reprogram this woman's brain to realize you and your empty holster posed no legitimate threat.

I just got my SuperTuck holster (love it, BTW) but have not yet had to walk through a metal detector. I would also recommend what was said early about using plastic belt clips instead of the new metal clips for this scenario in the future. If the metal detector hadn't gone off, you'd be fine and likely would have walked right in. Of course, your belt buckle could have also set off the detector and removing your belt without showing your holster may have been difficult - maybe wear a belt with plastic buckle that day? I'm actually considering ordering some plastic buckles for some of my belts because I hate taking off a belt for a metal detector (then my pants almost fall off).

If you do have to remove your entire SuperTuck holster, can you not just tighten your belt a notch or two and be OK? This is what I do.

[Rex B]

In a situation like that, can you ask to speak to a supervisor?

[mr.72]

BTW this is one reason why a holster with "J hooks" can be a real benefit.

One of the things I like most about my FIST K3 is how easy it is to put the holster on and off. Likewise with the J-hook you can take your belt off completely without taking off the holster or even exposing the holster. When you put the belt back on, let it slip over the J-hook and you're golden. This wouldn't work if you were tucked in, though. It'd be quite obvious that you still had something in your waistband.

My [old] Supertuck is dang near impossible to get on and off, and if I had to remove my belt it'd require me to thread the belt back through the C-clips. Out in the open in the security area of the court house, this would make the holster quite obvious to anyone paying attention. That's one other good reason I almost never carry that holster.

[Photoman]

In a situation like that, can you ask to speak to a supervisor?

Yes. You always have the option of asking for a supervisor. That is what I would do.

[kidder014]

Only thing I can think of that OP could have done differently is to not declare "empty holster".

Too often, trying to "do the right thing" and disclosing more information than necessary actually causes more problems than the situation itself warrants. In this situation, where he was completely within the law, I think he should've acted as though he was no different than any other citizen walking in the building.

Last I heard, there is no legal duty to declare a holster.