Enforceability of mask requirements

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Syntyr
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#16

Post by Syntyr »

TxRVer wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:18 am I forgot my mask when I went to HEB yesterday. No problems and I saw a few other men without.
Went to batteries and bulbs yesterday in Sugarland. There was a sign on the door that said “We will happily put on masks if it makes you feel safer. Please request when you enter and we will oblige”

When I went in one employee was wearing and the other wasn’t. No “Karens” were observed making a fuss.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#17

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I shop at a Tom Thimb near my house. They still have a mask required. I think. I was last there Tuesday last week. The Walgreens by me still has mask required signs and play it on the loud speaker that it is required. I was there Friday so they are still requiring them. I have not been in a restaurant in a couple months so don't know what is happening at our local places. The last restaurant I was in did the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed. Wear a mask to the table and then take it off. I guess Covid does not spread at the tables.
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ScottDLS
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

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03Lightningrocks wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:06 am I shop at a Tom Thimb near my house. They still have a mask required. I think. I was last there Tuesday last week. The Walgreens by me still has mask required signs and play it on the loud speaker that it is required. I was there Friday so they are still requiring them. I have not been in a restaurant in a couple months so don't know what is happening at our local places. The last restaurant I was in did the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed. Wear a mask to the table and then take it off. I guess Covid does not spread at the tables.
Restaurants have been doing the mask to table thing since all along. I think it was required during the mandate. It’s pretty hard to eat with a mask though.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

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ScottDLS wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:13 am
03Lightningrocks wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:06 am I shop at a Tom Thimb near my house. They still have a mask required. I think. I was last there Tuesday last week. The Walgreens by me still has mask required signs and play it on the loud speaker that it is required. I was there Friday so they are still requiring them. I have not been in a restaurant in a couple months so don't know what is happening at our local places. The last restaurant I was in did the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed. Wear a mask to the table and then take it off. I guess Covid does not spread at the tables.
Restaurants have been doing the mask to table thing since all along. I think it was required during the mandate. It’s pretty hard to eat with a mask though.
I realize that but I just thought it was pretty silly to require a mask while walking to a table where you would then remove the mask. Same air, same HVAC system to circulate the virus around. Some of this stuff has thrown all common sense out the windows. If the windows can still be opened. :smilelol5:
I told a story earlier in the thread about watching two women in their 60's eating with masks on. They would lower the mask, take a bite and then put the mask back to chew. It was the funniest thing ever.

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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#20

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Liberty wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:49 am For me a mask isn't just about spreading Wuflu, its about etiquette.
For me this is profound. I think that it is the underlying reason for many people's views. On one had, it says that the science doesn't matter. And yet the science is supposedly why we started wearing masks in the first place. In review, masks became "polite" in this country when this pandemic started. In Asia, they have been a staple for years. Many people of Asian decent have worn them here and to not a particularly warm welcome. Speaking with a man who is married to a woman from Okinawa, face mask wearing is an accepted practice there but it was much more voluntary. If you wanted to, you did but there was no social requirement in politeness to do it.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there is an element of virtue signaling in this. It is the same virtue signaling that in reverse demands that some articles of clothing are not allowed in public. Some people have developed a definition of what "polite society" is and doing or not doing what is considered to be in a list of virtue signals elicits a response. Personally, I don't have a problem with being the "odd man out." In probably too many cases in my life, telling me to or not to do something was a way to get me to produce the opposite response. I would submit that in some circles and even sometimes on this forum, OC is an item on that list. I'm poking the bear if I do it. It, too, is not done "in polite circles" lest I trigger someone who is offended at the sight of my gun.

I believe a couple of things.
1. We have pressured too many people to go about their lives including showing up for work when they were sick. It has sometimes even been a badge of honor to do so, showing one's martyrdom for a job with little or no concern for the spread of illness to colleagues. If etiquette had required people to stay home instead, past surges of the flu might have been lessened.
2. Encouraging people to wear masks when they are not feeling well is a good thing. Personally, I find this to be the most difficult time to try to wear a mask. I have a documented allergy to mountain cedar and when that pollen is roaring, the OTC medicine that I take just lessens the symptoms. But I'm not contagious since it is my own allergy. I'm spreading nothing. On the other hand, someone with a cold IS spreading their germs and having them wear a mask if they must be in public does protect others at least someone. Only the person involved knows the difference.
3. Etiquette is a social norm. One can be viewed as a barbarian for using the wrong fork at the wrong time at a fancy dinner party. But it never (at least in my experience) reaches the level of someone else feeling empowered to accost me for using the dinner fork for my salad. It comes down to the level of enforcement of the norm. Pivotal to that, I suppose, is my own feeling of potential personal harm from the person's indiscretion. What do I think about someone using the restroom, failing to wash their hands and than grabbing the exit door handle on the way out? I feel enough personal harm that I'm going to use my paper towel to grab the door handle as I exit and that I fume at the blow dryer only restrooms because of this.
4. At the root of the mask problem is the questionable concept of asymptomatic spread of Covid 19. That is difficult for me when it is done for a person who has not had the virus or received the vaccine. But I have friends who both contracted the virus AND have had both Moderna shots - and they still wear masks as a courtesy. I get it - the people around them don't know their history. But if they still need to wear masks to protect their fellow citizens, the whole premise of herd immunity as our pathway back to normal life is out the window.

As another poster has just suggested, the most interesting paradox is wearing a mask when entering a restaurant and then taking it off for the remainder of an hour's visit. I'll be very interested in the science behind how the 20 entrance steps require mask protection.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#21

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Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
I agree, with the exception of kicking someone out based on skin color or other protected class (legally speaking).

My only question is whether a business owner has to put on their big boy/girl pants and ask the person to leave first before they can call the police for trespassing.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#22

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:35 pm
Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
I agree, with the exception of kicking someone out based on skin color or other protected class (legally speaking).

My only question is whether a business owner has to put on their big boy/girl pants and ask the person to leave first before they can call the police for trespassing.
I think they can call the cops but until you are ask to leave and refuse, it is not trespassing. The cops will ask you to leave instead of the store manager.
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Syntyr
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#23

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Went to my local Buc-ees today and it was packed as usual. About 60% of the people inside no masks. Just an observation...
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Rafe
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#24

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People like it when I wear masks. I'm much better looking that way, and it's harder to understand what I say.
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ScottDLS
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#25

Post by ScottDLS »

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:35 pm
Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
I agree, with the exception of kicking someone out based on skin color or other protected class (legally speaking).

My only question is whether a business owner has to put on their big boy/girl pants and ask the person to leave first before they can call the police for trespassing.
You can't kick an off duty cop out for carrying a gun in your establishment or you are liable to a civil penalty. Certain people are special and exempt from your rules.
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ScottDLS
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#26

Post by ScottDLS »

Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
Unless the "you" is an off duty cop and is being kicked out for carrying. In that case the business would be liable for a civil penalty if such an action were taken. Certain classes of individuals are special and your rules don't apply to them.
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#27

Post by Tex1961 »

ScottDLS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:45 pm
Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
Unless the "you" is an off duty cop and is being kicked out for carrying. In that case the business would be liable for a civil penalty if such an action were taken. Certain classes of individuals are special and your rules don't apply to them.
Aww come on, now you’re just nitpicking. Of course a business has to follow the laws and I’m no exception. My house, my business I make the rules but I’m still bound by the rules and laws of the land. Geez.
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srothstein
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#28

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Tex1961 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:52 pm
ScottDLS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:45 pm
Tex1961 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:32 pm My business, my rules. I can kick you out anytime for any reason.
Unless the "you" is an off duty cop and is being kicked out for carrying. In that case the business would be liable for a civil penalty if such an action were taken. Certain classes of individuals are special and your rules don't apply to them.
Aww come on, now you’re just nitpicking. Of course a business has to follow the laws and I’m no exception. My house, my business I make the rules but I’m still bound by the rules and laws of the land. Geez.

I believe this is the point he is making. The rules should be "my property, my rules", whether it is my home or my business. Why do we have these laws that interfere with it? If the cop is off-duty, why does he have any special privileges? I pointed this out elsewhere when I said that my right to freedom of association is being infringed by laws that require me to allow certain customers in my business, even if I have to spend my money to make it possible for them to enter or lose other customers.

As a retired cop, I do know one possible answer, in Texas, why certain off duty officers must be allowed in with their guns. There is a Texas law that says any officer MUST take action when a crime occurs in his presence or view AND in his jurisdiction. It makes sense to me that you cannot disarm an officer who might be called on to respond to a crime. And as we all know, the crime might not be in your business but might be between your business and where he had to leave his firearm. I can understand officers in this one case. But the law doesn't apply to just off-duty officers in their jurisdiction and that is a problem. If a Dallas police officer is in San Antonio on vacation, he has no legal requirement to respond so the argument doesn't really apply.

So we come up with the argument that the government can make you disregard your own rules on your own property. And if they can do it in one case, how do you limit when they can do it? If they can do it to your business, can they do it to yoru home? And before you answer that, consider if you have a need to take in a boarder to help you financially for some reason. Or if you need to hire a home care person. Can you discriminate and choose the person you want to associate with?
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warnmar10
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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#29

Post by warnmar10 »

I tend not to go places where masks are "enforced". But when you really need tires or a renewal, what are you going to do?
I've been using these since April 2020, not even Costco or the DPS called me out on it. Is it a face covering that covers mouth and nose? Check, you may enter.
I also have the same thing in a denim color for casual Fridays.

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Re: Enforceability of mask requirements

#30

Post by flechero »

srothstein wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:59 pm

As a retired cop, I do know one possible answer, in Texas, why certain off duty officers must be allowed in with their guns. There is a Texas law that says any officer MUST take action when a crime occurs in his presence or view AND in his jurisdiction. It makes sense to me that you cannot disarm an officer who might be called on to respond to a crime. And as we all know, the crime might not be in your business but might be between your business and where he had to leave his firearm. I can understand officers in this one case. But the law doesn't apply to just off-duty officers in their jurisdiction and that is a problem. If a Dallas police officer is in San Antonio on vacation, he has no legal requirement to respond so the argument doesn't really apply.
Ironic because I may be called to respond to a threat to my family, or self in the exact same place the OD officer might or between there and where I had to leave my gun. And since the courts have said he isn't obligated to protect us, I think that's a crap rule to make the OD officer a special person and me and my family- just a target.

I know you were just clarifying the rules as it pertains to this discussion, so please don't take any of that as directed to ward you. :tiphat:
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