I know I have always carried at the fair. I always carry concealed so I haven’t had any problems. I wanted to look at their sight because of constitutional carry. Of course they said it is prohibited. They are also prohibiting open carry even with a LTC. I was curious about the open carry if you have a LTC. I would assume the same law that allows concealed carry would allow open carry with a LTC. Would love to hear why there is a difference.
A person holding a valid Texas License to Carry a Handgun (LTC), or a valid handgun license from a reciprocating state, is permitted to enter the Fair with his or her concealed handgun, provided that he or she thereafter fully complies with all applicable laws. LTC holders are responsible for knowing and complying with all applicable Texas laws. For example, under Texas Penal Code Chapter 46 an LTC holder is prohibited from carrying a handgun (1) on any other premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place (this may include Cotton Bowl Stadium, as well as the State Fair’s livestock facilities where interscholastic events are presented), (2) on the premises of a business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, or (3) while intoxicated.
Not quite sure what your asking, but as they state on their webiste they are a private entity and as such have the right to allow or restrict carrying a firearm as they see fit.
There are 3 types of restrictions now.
30.05 Permit less carry (Constitutional carry) - No carry at all without an LTC.
30.06 LTC - No carry at all
30.07 LTC - No Open Carry, but can carry concealed with LTC.
So what I am reading is that they are ok with you carrying a handgun concealed only if you have an LTC. If you don't have an LTC then they do not want you there with a firearm.
I understand what you are saying. However several years back there was someone who waged war and was able to prove they had to allow concealed carry. That was before open carry came out.
So my question is can they legal ban open carry. As far as the constitutional carry is concerned it doesn’t sound much like constitutional carry is really constitutional carry to me.
Yes, they are a private entity. Just like any other business, so they can ban open carry. Most believe that because the property is city owned that there is no restrictions allowed by state law. But this is a private group renting the facility which negates that rule. Same thing when you go to a gun show at a convention center. It’s city owned but is being rented by a private entity. As far as the constitutional carry part, they again are within their right as a private entity to restrict unlicensed carry.
Welcome.
On a personal note, you won’t ever catch me there. To many wackadoodles out there nowadays. I’d probably carry even if it was posted. What’s the worst they can do, ask me to leave.
My wife and I like to go on senior citizen days (Thursday). We get there about 9:30 and out by 4:30. I always carry, but concealed. My wife does also. I am able to rent a handicap scooter all day for $60.00. That is about my spending limit other than water and my wife’s funnel cake.
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:52 pm
My wife and I like to go on senior citizen days (Thursday). We get there about 9:30 and out by 4:30. I always carry, but concealed. My wife does also. I am able to rent a handicap scooter all day for $60.00. That is about my spending limit other than water and my wife’s funnel cake.
Where do you rent the scooters Carl? With my racing heart, I can't walk a great deal and with Debbie's plantar fasciitis, she can't either. I would love to go, but would like your input sir.
Joe it is Home Town Mobility at Gate 11 Pennsylvania Ave. You have to reserve them about two or three weeks ahead of time which stinks because you
don’t know what the weather is going to do. Their number is 1-712-938-2029
You can rent online. Just remember what gate and entrance you will use. https://htmia.com/
Tex1961 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:51 pm
Yes, they are a private entity. Just like any other business, so they can ban open carry. Most believe that because the property is city owned that there is no restrictions allowed by state law. But this is a private group renting the facility which negates that rule. Same thing when you go to a gun show at a convention center. It’s city owned but is being rented by a private entity. As far as the constitutional carry part, they again are within their right as a private entity to restrict unlicensed carry.
I disagree. Sections 30.06 and 30.07 expressly state that they do not apply to property owned or leased by a governmental agency. No place does the law allow a private party to make a rule on governmental property. The AG has even ruled this is true because it came up with the question of illegal posting of no guns signs. The official opinion said that the private party may post the signs on government property if it wishes but the signs are not enforceable based on the law.
What we end up with is that they can make the rule forbidding open carry by an LTC and may post 30.07 compliant signs, but the offense does not truly exist. If they do this and someone does try to enter while openly carrying their weapon, they will be stopped. If a police officer is called, you will probably be arrested (I would not want to bet on the average street officer knowing the finer points of the law in this area). You will win the court case and probably could win a lawsuit for the illegal arrest, but you will have spent time in jail and money on the defense.
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:29 pmI know I have always carried at the fair. I always carry concealed so I haven’t had any problems. I wanted to look at their sight because of constitutional carry. Of course they said it is prohibited. They are also prohibiting open carry even with a LTC. I was curious about the open carry if you have a LTC. I would assume the same law that allows concealed carry would allow open carry with a LTC. Would love to hear why there is a difference.
I believe you are correct and you can openly carry if you have your LTC. But, as I state above, it is going to be messy and I would not recommend it.
Tex1961 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:51 pm
Yes, they are a private entity. Just like any other business, so they can ban open carry. Most believe that because the property is city owned that there is no restrictions allowed by state law. But this is a private group renting the facility which negates that rule. Same thing when you go to a gun show at a convention center. It’s city owned but is being rented by a private entity. As far as the constitutional carry part, they again are within their right as a private entity to restrict unlicensed carry.
I disagree. Sections 30.06 and 30.07 expressly state that they do not apply to property owned or leased by a governmental agency. No place does the law allow a private party to make a rule on governmental property. The AG has even ruled this is true because it came up with the question of illegal posting of no guns signs. The official opinion said that the private party may post the signs on government property if it wishes but the signs are not enforceable based on the law.
What we end up with is that they can make the rule forbidding open carry by an LTC and may post 30.07 compliant signs, but the offense does not truly exist. If they do this and someone does try to enter while openly carrying their weapon, they will be stopped. If a police officer is called, you will probably be arrested (I would not want to bet on the average street officer knowing the finer points of the law in this area). You will win the court case and probably could win a lawsuit for the illegal arrest, but you will have spent time in jail and money on the defense.
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:29 pmI know I have always carried at the fair. I always carry concealed so I haven’t had any problems. I wanted to look at their sight because of constitutional carry. Of course they said it is prohibited. They are also prohibiting open carry even with a LTC. I was curious about the open carry if you have a LTC. I would assume the same law that allows concealed carry would allow open carry with a LTC. Would love to hear why there is a difference.
I believe you are correct and you can openly carry if you have your LTC. But, as I state above, it is going to be messy and I would not recommend it.
I hear what your saying and technically you are correct to the letter of the statutes as written. And I agree that this would be a case of who has the better attorney. You can argue the letter or the spirit of the law. If a police officer tells you that you cannot enter and arrests you if you do, are you following a lawful order. This is one of those legal rabbit holes.
As has been stated many times in this forum, "You may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride". So unless your goal the day you attend the Fair is to prove a legal point, I would just play along by their rules.
It is cases like this that make me question my decision not to renew my LTC. It has been 5-6 years since I last went to the fair but I remember them wanding people upon entry.
03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:33 am
As has been stated many times in this forum, "You may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride". So unless your goal the day you attend the Fair is to prove a legal point, I would just play along by their rules.
It is cases like this that make me question my decision not to renew my LTC. It has been 5-6 years since I last went to the fair but I remember them wanding people upon entry.
I had the same falerol with the City of Lewisville a few years back. They hired a private security firm, wanded everybody coming in and even made guys take their pocket knives back to their cars. I wasn't having it. My wife was certain that I was going to get arrested but I just escalated the matter by saying "I don't want to be wanded. The LE officers showed up and one of them led be through the wanding which included the wand barking on my my hips when it went over my gun and spare mag. The officer and I shook hands and I went about my business.
My point is that Dallas, like so many other bastions of Liberal oppression will push as far as they can get away with. I'm not about to show up at the Fair, make a scene and get arrested but someone who actually attends the Fair (I won't) and sees all of this, should be able to file a compliant with AG Paxton's office and tell him that Dallas is making up their own rules again. I realize that it is an election year and the timing for such a complaint is lousy.
Section 411.209, Government Code, is only applicable to a state agency or political subdivision and does not address whether a private entity leasing property from a governmental entity may post signs prohibiting the carrying of handguns|Sections 46.03 and 46.035, Penal Code - A court would likely conclude that a license holder who carries a handgun on property that is owned by a governmental entity but leased to a private entity and that is not a premises or other place from which the license holder is prohibited from carrying is excepted from the offenses under sections 46.03 and 46.035
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.! Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
I’m sitting at the State Fair right now. Yesterday we had to show our LTC license to the cop sitting in the box after the metal detector. He asked me to just keep it concealed. Today I just flashed my license to the bag check lady and walked on through the metal detector.
Don’t have much to add on the discussion other than carrying concealed is not a big deal.
Talon Firearms Training
Instructor - License To Carry, School Safety, First Responder: Texas DPS, Certified Instructor: Rangemasters/Tom Givens
NRA Instructor - Basic Pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Range Safety Officer
Stop The Bleed Instructor
