When to call 911

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tboesche
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When to call 911

#1

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:58 am

I have been mulling this over for some time. The Joe Horn incident only reinforces it.

At what point do you call 911. I.E. You are alone, as Mr. Horn was, see something happening that you feel requirs your intervention. Do you call BEFORE you move to engage bad guys or after. One thought is that if you call before, there will be a recorded version of the dispatcher telling you to stay put. This recorded audio couold be used against you in both criminal AND civil court. Granted if the shooting is determined to be righteous, then the criminal case would be null and void but not the civil case.

If you are with other people, my personal belief is that I would have someone else call 911 wehile I move to engage the bad guys.

I can see that, when alone, waiting could be bad. For example, if you are injured and not able to call who will? Do you call, give a brief description and location and then drop the phone or what?

What do you think YOU would do in either case?
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck

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Keith B
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Re: When to call 911

#2

Post by Keith B » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:13 am

Every situation is going to be different. There are too many variables to try and say 'I would do this, or I would do that.'

I can tell you there WILL be a call to 911 (or at least the non-emergency number) at some time, no matter if I engage the individuals or not. Too many folks don't let the police know things went on in their neighborhood.

A good example is my car was left unlocked in the driveway one night. There was nothing really to take, but the individuals took a box of Kleenex. I assume the burglars were snot nosed kids! "rlol" Anyway, I called the police to come by at their convenience to make a report. A lot of folks would have just let it go since nothing valuable was missing. When they do not report these minor things, the detectives can't determine the number of incidents in an area and trend what is going on. The department SHOULD be using statistics to help plan their patrols, investigations, etc. It also allows them to try and link other crimes to individuals that are caught in an area.

So, before, during or after, the police will be called. What happens in the other times will depend on the situation at hand.
Keith
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tboesche
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Re: When to call 911

#3

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:25 am

Quote "There was nothing really to take, but the individuals took a box of Kleenex. I assume the burglars were snot nosed kids!" End Quote

That's Funny! :rolll :rolll :rolll

I agree that the Police MUST be called at some point. I also agree that each situation may require a different timeline.

How about the rest of you? Lets get some discussion going.
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck


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Re: When to call 911

#4

Post by Lucky45 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:50 am

tboesche wrote:LIFE PHILOSOPHIES
1. If you mess with a truck, you get run over.
2. Don't start something you are not capable of finishing.
I think your philosophies is your answer. Most people call 911 because they need ASSISTANCE. So if you think you can finish a situation with 1 or more suspects without assistance, then go on ahead. Most professional departments teach to wait for backup. Unless you are John Rambo.
If you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything.

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Re: When to call 911

#5

Post by txinvestigator » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:05 am

tboesche wrote:. One thought is that if you call before, there will be a recorded version of the dispatcher telling you to stay put.
A dispatcher has no legal authority over me, and their instructions to me hold no legal requirement over me.
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Re: When to call 911

#6

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:10 am

Lucky45 wrote:
tboesche wrote:LIFE PHILOSOPHIES
1. If you mess with a truck, you get run over.
2. Don't start something you are not capable of finishing.
I think your philosophies is your answer. Most people call 911 because they need ASSISTANCE. So if you think you can finish a situation with 1 or more suspects without assistance, then go on ahead. Most professional departments teach to wait for backup. Unless you are John Rambo.
Lucky, Are you saying you would not act until Back up arrives? OR have I misinterpreted your post?
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck


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tboesche
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Re: When to call 911

#7

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:17 am

txinvestigator wrote:
tboesche wrote:. One thought is that if you call before, there will be a recorded version of the dispatcher telling you to stay put.
A dispatcher has no legal authority over me, and their instructions to me hold no legal requirement over me.
:iagree:

Even thought they have no legal authority, couldn't transcripts be used against you in a civil suit?

Bad guys family sues because you shot their "perfect little boy" as he was about to break into your neighbors house, and when you challenge him he points a knife or gun at you. They use the tape as evidence against you, claiming that the "little Angel" never had time to change hs mind and realize that he was acting badly, since you murdered him before he could stop what he was doing.

Touchy subject I know. Again just stimulating discussion.
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck


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Re: When to call 911

#8

Post by rm9792 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:34 am

What about this: You hear something at night you know is bad, you dial 911 as you are getting up to check and leave the line open. They will send a car over to investigate and you only lose about 4 seconds dialing. I dont know that I would want to be heard by a bg talking on the phone. That lets him know where you are and that police will be there eventually.


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Re: When to call 911

#9

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:40 am

What if you only have a cell phone? I have friends that do not have a land line. Can the PD trace a cell phone location, or is the closest they can get is a cell tower.

I agree that an open landline is a good idea. The dispatcher will know that "something" is up and hopefully, decide that since no one is talking they need to roll units as soon as possible.
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck


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Re: When to call 911

#10

Post by rm9792 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 am

Depends on your cell, most have e911 locating ability now. It can be turned on or off via menus. Only downside to this is they might roll an ambulance or firetruck, tying up resources. I wouldnt use this unless absolutely sure something was up.


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Re: When to call 911

#11

Post by Lucky45 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:15 am

tboesche wrote:Lucky, Are you saying you would not act until Back up arrives? OR have I misinterpreted your post?
I am saying that if you have to think about if you should call 911, then that means you have some better alternatives to deal with your issue. Most situations involving the IMMEDIATE use of deadly force, I think calling 911 would NOT be on the top 10 lists of what I should do next. When adrenaline start flowing, "the rule is always FIGHT OR FLIGHT." (NOT CALL!!!)
So if you catch me drift; if calling 911 pops up in your head and all the rational behind what you will / will not be told or recorded, then you could probably wait for some sort of backup.
If you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything.

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Re: When to call 911

#12

Post by tboesche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:34 am

Lucky,
I see what you are saying and have to agree. If the situation is such that You have no choice other than to act, I.E. immediate loss of life or a serious threat to life, you HAVE to act first and then make the necessary phone calls. Hopefully none of us are ever in a situation where we have to make such a decison, but if we ever are, it is good to know that we have thought of these things and we will react.
"Water's, wet, The sky is blue. And old Satan Claws, He's out there, and he's just getting stronger." Joe Halenbeck
"So what do we do about it?" Jimmie Dix
"Be prepared, Junior, That's my motto, Be Prepared". Joe Halenbeck

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Re: When to call 911

#13

Post by LedJedi » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:57 am

The police cannot protect you in your home. If goblins break in upon you the police should be called - as soon as you get around to it - in order to write out reports and clean up the mess. But the goblins are your problem. Bear that always in mind.
- Jeff Cooper
that being said...

4 seconds to open a line and walk away to handle the goblins is certainly acceptable assume the open line can hear what's going on. You might stop for another 3-4 seconds and say "burglary in progress, home owner armed and wearing (whatever you're wearing), Going to confront the intruder" and walk away.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV so i'd like to hear from charles or another attorney on this but I don't believe a 911 operator has any legal clout to order you to do anything.


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Re: When to call 911

#14

Post by txinvestigator » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:23 pm

tboesche wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
tboesche wrote:. One thought is that if you call before, there will be a recorded version of the dispatcher telling you to stay put.
A dispatcher has no legal authority over me, and their instructions to me hold no legal requirement over me.
:iagree:

Even thought they have no legal authority, couldn't transcripts be used against you in a civil suit?
I don't see how it would be significant, but I am no attorney.
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Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.


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Re: When to call 911

#15

Post by 45 4 life » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:36 pm

My thinking on this is if the BG is in my house, someone else is going to have to dial the phone or I will when the situation is resolved. When the break in happens I want only one thing on my mind. Something similar to this has happened to me except the big dog caused the BG to turn and run. All I was able to see was a body going over the fence. In that case I told the wife to make the call.
To many things can go wrong in 3-5 seconds it takes to call 911.

As far as dispatchers having any authority over you during a call, I believe most departments still hire civilians for the dispatcher post.

In Mr. Horns case having not been there, I am not sure if I would done anything more than call and be the good witness. Hard to make that call, I have little tolerence for petty theives.
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