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This is the important part.seamusTX wrote:A 17-year-old is going to be held to the same standard as an adult in the use of deadly force, so it's important for her to understand the seriousness of carrying.
BigBlueDodge wrote:I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.
I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.
Update... Here is the law, section 46.13
So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...
I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.
How did you get to (d) without seeing (c)?montgomery wrote:BigBlueDodge wrote:I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.
I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.
Update... Here is the law, section 46.13
So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...
I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.
Agreed on all ... one sticking point is (bold added for emphasis):
Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.
Pawpaw wrote:How did you get to (d) without seeing (c)?montgomery wrote:BigBlueDodge wrote:I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.
I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.
Update... Here is the law, section 46.13
So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...
I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.
Agreed on all ... one sticking point is (bold added for emphasis):
Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.
Make sure the child knows firearm safety and handling safety, and not to touch the firearm for any reason, unless specifically instructed to do so buy the adult.AdioSS wrote:This thread makes me wonder about potential legal issues that my girlfriend might face if her 19year old daughter has a pistol in her car when her 8+ year younger brothers are in it. Like, what if they stayed in the car when she went inside to pick something up?
I imagine it would be the same as if a 30 year old left their 8 year old child alone in a car with a handgun in the center console or somewhere, while they went in to pay for gas or buy a soda.AdioSS wrote:This thread makes me wonder about potential legal issues that my girlfriend might face if her 19year old daughter has a pistol in her car when her 8+ year younger brothers are in it. Like, what if they stayed in the car when she went inside to pick something up?
BigBlueDodge wrote:I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.
I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.
Update... Here is the law, section 46.13
So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...
I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.
I needed my mom's permission to sign my enlistment papers at 17. Turned 18 in basic training... so was I not old enough?BBYC wrote:If you need your mom's permission, I think you answered your own question about being old enough.
If I was 17 and living under my folks roof, driving a car they owned (you can't own a car at 17), and otherwise needing to go by their wishes, then that I believe that is showing respect to get their blessing for something as important as carrying a firearm.BBYC wrote:If you need your mom's permission, I think you answered your own question about being old enough.