Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

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ScottDLS
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#61

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:41 am

PBratton wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:19 am
jimlongley wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:17 pm
The sticks the "little old ladies out walking for exercise with sticks (e.g. cut down broom handles)" are carrying would seem to me to not fit in the definition "(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, "

Which is the reason that gang bangers are such big golf fans that they carry their favorite nine iron everywhere they go just in case they happen to come across a driving range new to the 'hood and feel the need to hit a couple of buckets of balls.
But couldn't a weapon be considered anything that is used to inflict bodily damage or death?
No, because for purposes of Chapter 46, the term "weapon" has a specific definition which leaves out certain things like long guns.
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ScottDLS
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#62

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:50 am

Grundy1133 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:11 pm
BRAD3000 wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:03 pm
RE: Batons on person or in a motor vehicle.

Reviewing this thread in its entirety, I conclude this -
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS - bans this as a club unless you are in/on your own home/property including going to or from your vehicle or any such under your control. This would apply to a rental.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY - For carrying a baton on ones person, this section is an affirmative defense for lawfully possessing a baton while carrying a concealed handgun under a CHL.

I hope my summary above is a good one.
hmmm so whats the definitive answer here? as long as you have an LTC you can carry a baton?
Theoretically PC 46.02 "does not apply" (meaning a defense to prosecution) if you have a LTC and are carrying a handgun. So you could, in theory carry an asp (PC46 weapon "club") along with your handgun. In order to avoid being the proverbial "test case", I would likely carry both concealed, thereby having very little chance of being a "test case" with the "Travis County DA".

46.15
...
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#63

Post by TomS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:22 am

A baton can be lethal or cause permanent disability. I would use OC spray before a baton, with the right spray it’s effective.

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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#64

Post by bigtek » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:02 pm

Mmmkay
Deck the halls with nitroglycerin
Fa la la la la la la la la!
Strike a match and see who's missin'
Fa la la la la la la la la!

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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#65

Post by TomS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 pm

MmmYep.


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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#66

Post by philip964 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:38 pm

You tube had a convienence store clerk unload bear spray on two robbers at close range.

It was probably even bad for the clerk with the bounce back.

I think it’s like $50 on Amazon.

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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#67

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:11 pm

philip964 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:38 pm
You tube had a convienence store clerk unload bear spray on two robbers at close range.

It was probably even bad for the clerk with the bounce back.

I think it’s like $50 on Amazon.
But isn't that an illegal "chemical dispensing device"?.... :smilelol5:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#68

Post by WildRose » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:47 pm

The_Vigilante wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:02 pm
Let's see, I can carry a firearm which can inflict a lot more damage than a baton, billy club, etc. Why not a baton? Wouldn't it be preferrable to use a baton to defend yourself in cases where a gun wouldn't be an option? No loss of life! Wonder what the reasoning is on the restrictions of batons?
As much as I love this state we have had some of the dumbest weapons laws in the country for decades. Our knife laws until recently amended were an abomination.

With respect to clubs, blackjacks, etc the reasons behind the prohibitions are understandable, they wanted to limit as much as possible the ability of gangs and individual criminals to legally possess such weapons on the street.

In reality, the net effect is that it makes the law abiding citizen less safe and gives criminals an advantage since it isn't they who are inclined to follow the law.

For decades "officer discretion" took care of the problem. The law existed to get them an excuse to hold someone for investigation on the violation if they suspected them of something else but "Joe or Jose' Good citizen" would be treated with a wink and a nod.

With all the discrimination lawsuits of the last few decades much of that discretion is simply gone and cops are in a no win situation.

I've written the governor, legislature, and individuals in the gov't several times suggesting these laws need to be repealed and reviewed but so far, there's just not enough political will behind it.

In truth, all that would be necessary to have the desired deterrent effect while still allowing more less than lethal options for lawful self defense would be to simply amend the existing laws making possession of any of those weapons a felony or even aggravated felony during the commission of a crime and lawful for all others.
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#69

Post by Flightmare » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:54 pm

WildRose wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:47 pm
The_Vigilante wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:02 pm
Let's see, I can carry a firearm which can inflict a lot more damage than a baton, billy club, etc. Why not a baton? Wouldn't it be preferrable to use a baton to defend yourself in cases where a gun wouldn't be an option? No loss of life! Wonder what the reasoning is on the restrictions of batons?
As much as I love this state we have had some of the dumbest weapons laws in the country for decades. Our knife laws until recently amended were an abomination.

With respect to clubs, blackjacks, etc the reasons behind the prohibitions are understandable, they wanted to limit as much as possible the ability of gangs and individual criminals to legally possess such weapons on the street.

In reality, the net effect is that it makes the law abiding citizen less safe and gives criminals an advantage since it isn't they who are inclined to follow the law.

For decades "officer discretion" took care of the problem. The law existed to get them an excuse to hold someone for investigation on the violation if they suspected them of something else but "Joe or Jose' Good citizen" would be treated with a wink and a nod.

With all the discrimination lawsuits of the last few decades much of that discretion is simply gone and cops are in a no win situation.

I've written the governor, legislature, and individuals in the gov't several times suggesting these laws need to be repealed and reviewed but so far, there's just not enough political will behind it.

In truth, all that would be necessary to have the desired deterrent effect while still allowing more less than lethal options for lawful self defense would be to simply amend the existing laws making possession of any of those weapons a felony or even aggravated felony during the commission of a crime and lawful for all others.
I've been discussing this with friends lately. Even the "cat keychain" that was an attempt at getting around the "brass knuckles" rule is silly. Owning or possessing the object should not be what is illegal. Committing the crime of assault (whether with an object or bare-handed) is already a crime. I would be okay with an enhancement to the crime for using an object to commit a crime, but not for owning or possessing an object.
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#70

Post by WildRose » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:06 am

Flightmare wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:54 pm
WildRose wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:47 pm
The_Vigilante wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:02 pm
Let's see, I can carry a firearm which can inflict a lot more damage than a baton, billy club, etc. Why not a baton? Wouldn't it be preferrable to use a baton to defend yourself in cases where a gun wouldn't be an option? No loss of life! Wonder what the reasoning is on the restrictions of batons?
As much as I love this state we have had some of the dumbest weapons laws in the country for decades. Our knife laws until recently amended were an abomination.

With respect to clubs, blackjacks, etc the reasons behind the prohibitions are understandable, they wanted to limit as much as possible the ability of gangs and individual criminals to legally possess such weapons on the street.

In reality, the net effect is that it makes the law abiding citizen less safe and gives criminals an advantage since it isn't they who are inclined to follow the law.

For decades "officer discretion" took care of the problem. The law existed to get them an excuse to hold someone for investigation on the violation if they suspected them of something else but "Joe or Jose' Good citizen" would be treated with a wink and a nod.

With all the discrimination lawsuits of the last few decades much of that discretion is simply gone and cops are in a no win situation.

I've written the governor, legislature, and individuals in the gov't several times suggesting these laws need to be repealed and reviewed but so far, there's just not enough political will behind it.

In truth, all that would be necessary to have the desired deterrent effect while still allowing more less than lethal options for lawful self defense would be to simply amend the existing laws making possession of any of those weapons a felony or even aggravated felony during the commission of a crime and lawful for all others.
I've been discussing this with friends lately. Even the "cat keychain" that was an attempt at getting around the "brass knuckles" rule is silly. Owning or possessing the object should not be what is illegal. Committing the crime of assault (whether with an object or bare-handed) is already a crime. I would be okay with an enhancement to the crime for using an object to commit a crime, but not for owning or possessing an object.
I may have been unclear but that's exactly the same position I'm endorsing. Unless you're legally ineligible to posses a "weapon" of any kind, the mere possession should never be even a civil violation much less a criminal violation.

Possession while committing any felony being criminalized would be the only circumstance I think in which it should be illegal. In that case it's the predicate crime being committed that makes what follows or accompanies it's omission illegal.
Last edited by WildRose on Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#71

Post by WildRose » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:09 am

ScottDLS wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:11 pm
philip964 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:38 pm
You tube had a convienence store clerk unload bear spray on two robbers at close range.

It was probably even bad for the clerk with the bounce back.

I think it’s like $50 on Amazon.
But isn't that an illegal "chemical dispensing device"?.... :smilelol5:
Not if it is labeled for "bear spray" and in the large container. I'd have to look but I think the limit is 8 oz. Anything that size or smaller is considered a weapon. I could be wrong on the size but it's a minimum rather than maximum.

It's also one of those things where the circumstances and the cop investigating is going to make all the difference in the world. Even if you are perfectly fine under the letter of the law you can still end up arrested and charged and having to defend yourself under the wrong circumstances.
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Shalafein
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#72

Post by Shalafein » Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm

I think the limit is 8 oz. Anything that size or smaller is considered a weapon.
Reread the section.
The definition of an (illegal) ‘Chemical Dispensing Device’ does NOT include any small (read: personal use) device sold commercially for personal protection.
This would not include ANY size of ‘self defense’ or ‘animal deterrent’ canister of OC, nor anything like a PepperBlaster.

This WOULD include as being illegal the force multiplying or area denial weaponry, such as OC or CS grenades, OC/CS 40mm rounds, or the 10-50 gallon pressurized tanks of OC or CS connected to a fogger and intended to saturate a room or building.

Anyway ... September 1, 2019 marks the effective date of HB 446 (2019) which removes “clubs” (batons) from the prohibited/illegal weapons list, and officially concludes this thread with a happy ending.

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... navpanes=0
Last edited by Shalafein on Fri May 31, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#73

Post by nwoodco1 » Fri May 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Shalafein wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm
I think the limit is 8 oz. Anything that size or smaller is considered a weapon.
Reread the section.
The definition of an (illegal) ‘Chemical Dispensing Device’ does NOT include any device sold commercially for personal protection.
This would not include ANY size of ‘self defense’ or ‘animal deterrent’ canister of OC, nor anything like a PepperBlaster.

This WOULD include as being illegal the force multiplying or area denial weaponry, such as OC or CS grenades, OC/CS 40mm rounds, or the 10-50 gallon pressurized tanks of OC or CS connected to a fogger and intended to saturate a room or building.

Anyway ... September 1, 2019 marks the effective date of HB 446 (2019) which removes “clubs” (batons) from the prohibited/illegal weapons list, and officially concludes this thread with a happy ending.

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... navpanes=0
So does this mean I can keep a baton in my car or only concealed on my person?

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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#74

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri May 31, 2019 2:22 pm

nwoodco1 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 1:39 pm
Shalafein wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm
I think the limit is 8 oz. Anything that size or smaller is considered a weapon.
Reread the section.
The definition of an (illegal) ‘Chemical Dispensing Device’ does NOT include any device sold commercially for personal protection.
This would not include ANY size of ‘self defense’ or ‘animal deterrent’ canister of OC, nor anything like a PepperBlaster.

This WOULD include as being illegal the force multiplying or area denial weaponry, such as OC or CS grenades, OC/CS 40mm rounds, or the 10-50 gallon pressurized tanks of OC or CS connected to a fogger and intended to saturate a room or building.

Anyway ... September 1, 2019 marks the effective date of HB 446 (2019) which removes “clubs” (batons) from the prohibited/illegal weapons list, and officially concludes this thread with a happy ending.

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... navpanes=0
So does this mean I can keep a baton in my car or only concealed on my person?
Apparently, yes.....as of 9/1/2019 when the new law goes into effect.
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Caliber
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Re: Collapsible Baton-Legal to Carry in Texas

#75

Post by Caliber » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:20 am

In the link noted above, look at page 2, line 13. "Tire inflation device" - A tire inflation device?

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